Designing a Range Rover Twin Turbo
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Designing a Range Rover Twin Turbo
Hi,
Title is explanatory enough
Me and my mate Russell both have 1991 Range Rover 3.9 Vogue's. His is an automatic, mine is Manual. To cut a long story short, we're wanting to do a twin turbo project on a shoestring, just for the hell of doing it. It's not for power, and we won't be doing any internal engine work, so I'm intending to run light boost. The object of the exercise is simply to see how cheaply we can do it, DIY style. I'll start with some vehicle specs.
Russells:
3.9 EFi, rebuilt less than 4000 miles ago, Fast Road Cam, 4 branch manifolds, 2.5" bore duplex exhaust system, no balance pipe. His is an automatic gearbox, which was rebuilt about 8000 miles ago with an uprated 4.6 clutch and should be good for up to 260bhp, and I can't see us pushing that.
Mine:
Dead standard, but fairly low mileage 3.9 EFi, standard, 5 speed manual box.
We're looking at various options for turbos, basically we want 2 pairs of fairly small turbos with integral wastegates, I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any?
Manifolds we can make ourselves, same with intercooler piping etc. The main question I've got is ECU related. Does anyone know how flexible the stock ECU is, I'm kinda guessing we'll have to switch it out as it won't handle the boost? Anyone know much about this?
Matt
Title is explanatory enough
Me and my mate Russell both have 1991 Range Rover 3.9 Vogue's. His is an automatic, mine is Manual. To cut a long story short, we're wanting to do a twin turbo project on a shoestring, just for the hell of doing it. It's not for power, and we won't be doing any internal engine work, so I'm intending to run light boost. The object of the exercise is simply to see how cheaply we can do it, DIY style. I'll start with some vehicle specs.
Russells:
3.9 EFi, rebuilt less than 4000 miles ago, Fast Road Cam, 4 branch manifolds, 2.5" bore duplex exhaust system, no balance pipe. His is an automatic gearbox, which was rebuilt about 8000 miles ago with an uprated 4.6 clutch and should be good for up to 260bhp, and I can't see us pushing that.
Mine:
Dead standard, but fairly low mileage 3.9 EFi, standard, 5 speed manual box.
We're looking at various options for turbos, basically we want 2 pairs of fairly small turbos with integral wastegates, I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any?
Manifolds we can make ourselves, same with intercooler piping etc. The main question I've got is ECU related. Does anyone know how flexible the stock ECU is, I'm kinda guessing we'll have to switch it out as it won't handle the boost? Anyone know much about this?
Matt
1991 Range Rover Vogue 3.9 EFI
Megasquirt is the easiest way to do it, assuming you dont want to rely on a third party (read mark adams) to map your existing ecu.
Also factor in the cost of a LC1 wideband lambda.
For turbos' a pair of turbos from a 2L engine should work ok - ford or scooby. Avoid diesel turbos, as the turbine (hot side) tends to be very small and would restrict top end.
Also factor in the cost of a LC1 wideband lambda.
For turbos' a pair of turbos from a 2L engine should work ok - ford or scooby. Avoid diesel turbos, as the turbine (hot side) tends to be very small and would restrict top end.
Hi
first question, whar CR are you both running, from what I remember there are about as many compression ratios for this rangy as there were markets......
next, I think you can bodge the efi to work with some boost by putting a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator (and some fish tank plumbing) in the fuel feed and possably bigger injectors, horrid but cheep (until it runs your engine lean on full power and boost! I think you can also use a hack (bodgit box) into the water temp sensor feed to give a bit more enrichment with boost again not nice but you may get it to work.
personally I would go aftermarket ecu, vems, megasquirt or emerald and do that bit properly and sell the existing ecu's to recover the cash.
Mike
first question, whar CR are you both running, from what I remember there are about as many compression ratios for this rangy as there were markets......
next, I think you can bodge the efi to work with some boost by putting a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator (and some fish tank plumbing) in the fuel feed and possably bigger injectors, horrid but cheep (until it runs your engine lean on full power and boost! I think you can also use a hack (bodgit box) into the water temp sensor feed to give a bit more enrichment with boost again not nice but you may get it to work.
personally I would go aftermarket ecu, vems, megasquirt or emerald and do that bit properly and sell the existing ecu's to recover the cash.
Mike
poppet valves rule!
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Hi,
Thanks for the responses.
The CR of both engines is 9.13:1
I think an aftermarket ECU is going to be the way to go, just a bit of a pain, I reckon it'll be the single biggest expense
Nevermind, I may be trying to do it as cheap as possible, but I also want it to work, it hasnt got to be crap
What am I going to pay for a Megasquirt then, I can't find a price for basic kit, and assembled ones are up to £280.
Thanks for the responses.
The CR of both engines is 9.13:1
I think an aftermarket ECU is going to be the way to go, just a bit of a pain, I reckon it'll be the single biggest expense
Nevermind, I may be trying to do it as cheap as possible, but I also want it to work, it hasnt got to be crap
What am I going to pay for a Megasquirt then, I can't find a price for basic kit, and assembled ones are up to £280.
1991 Range Rover Vogue 3.9 EFI
Richard and dnb are also both on this board and are involved with vems ecu's
Regards Tony C (COOPS)
MS2 V3.57 Ecu mapable efi and wasted spark ignition.
Procharger D1SC supercharger and Cossie RS500 Intercooler @ 14psi of Boost. 416 RWHP, (boost leak)
Forged 4.8 V8 kitted out with the dogs Cajones of parts.
Sponsored by: www.v8performanceparts.co.uk, www.interpart.biz, www.caprisport.com & www.baileyperformance.co.uk
MS2 V3.57 Ecu mapable efi and wasted spark ignition.
Procharger D1SC supercharger and Cossie RS500 Intercooler @ 14psi of Boost. 416 RWHP, (boost leak)
Forged 4.8 V8 kitted out with the dogs Cajones of parts.
Sponsored by: www.v8performanceparts.co.uk, www.interpart.biz, www.caprisport.com & www.baileyperformance.co.uk
I have this pair of plenums - would be ideal for twin turbo-ing:
Trouble is that it'll probably be a budget breaker! Metal fabrication isn't cheap.
For turbos on a 3.9 I'd suggest a couple of TD04s from a 1997 to 1999 UK spec Impreza turbo. They'll be about the right size for low boost and people are throwing them away in preference of the TD05 etc for their Scoobs.
I have a couple of TVR exhaust manifolds. They are a pair of short 4-into-1 systems, so they can be easily cut and welded for connecting to the turbos. I thought about twin turbos on the Griff once upon a time, but thought that the boss wouldn't approve...
As for ECUs: VEMS / MS etc - all will work nicely, and are quite easy to set up - there's plenty of help out there.
Trouble is that it'll probably be a budget breaker! Metal fabrication isn't cheap.
For turbos on a 3.9 I'd suggest a couple of TD04s from a 1997 to 1999 UK spec Impreza turbo. They'll be about the right size for low boost and people are throwing them away in preference of the TD05 etc for their Scoobs.
I have a couple of TVR exhaust manifolds. They are a pair of short 4-into-1 systems, so they can be easily cut and welded for connecting to the turbos. I thought about twin turbos on the Griff once upon a time, but thought that the boss wouldn't approve...
As for ECUs: VEMS / MS etc - all will work nicely, and are quite easy to set up - there's plenty of help out there.
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Is that silicon hose I see? If it is what have you done to stop it completely collapsing under vac?dnb wrote:I have this pair of plenums - would be ideal for twin turbo-ing:
Trouble is that it'll probably be a budget breaker! Metal fabrication isn't cheap.
For turbos on a 3.9 I'd suggest a couple of TD04s from a 1997 to 1999 UK spec Impreza turbo. They'll be about the right size for low boost and people are throwing them away in preference of the TD05 etc for their Scoobs.
I have a couple of TVR exhaust manifolds. They are a pair of short 4-into-1 systems, so they can be easily cut and welded for connecting to the turbos. I thought about twin turbos on the Griff once upon a time, but thought that the boss wouldn't approve...
As for ECUs: VEMS / MS etc - all will work nicely, and are quite easy to set up - there's plenty of help out there.
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I would have thought the cheapest exhaust manifolds would be a set of P6? or P5 rear exit cast manifolds, swop them side to side so they exit forwards and machine up some adaptors to suit the turbos
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12.604 with an old boiler of a RV8 and no gas
WHY are there so many IANS on this site???????