The V8 Owners Forum -

Guys,

Looking to invest in a wideband lambda setup - if it helps me and the rest of my Land-rover running family (3x v8's, 2x2.25p, 1x2litre special ) get them running spot on i reckon it'll be a worthwhile investment.

The other reason is that both me and my Dad are looking to Megasquirt our Defenders and although I have read that you can tune pretty well with a narrowband, a wideband will help you get things closer still.

So- my questions are these.

-Any brands to avoid?
-Digital gauge or analogue? (i can see how a needle is better in fast moving situations, but harder to read accurately)

Last question:

As my 3.5 runs on LPG most of the time will I be able to trick the closed loop system that controls this into thinking I have a narrowband installed in there?

Don't really want to scupper the closed loop on the LPG incase I have major problems with petrol setup, but don't want to be taking the thing in and out all the time and swapping narrowband back either? The y-piece is a bugger to get off and so would like to avoid removing to weld in another bung if poss.

My ideal scenario would be that the wideband could be installed in place of my narrowband, and output some kind of narroband emulating signal to the LPG box. That way I can tune the petrol over a course of a week or so, without disturbing the LPG running.

Lastly- can some clarify something for me? As LPG is stoich at a different ratio to Petrol, will the wideband have any usefulness with LPG?

I assume that the contents of the exhaust will be proportionally the same at stoich for any fuel, and so the lambda will read stoich correctly on LPG but display 14.7 rather than the 15.something that it actually is.

If I am right, does this mean that if I just work to Petrol figures whilst running LPG the end result will be the same? I'd like to check my LPG figures under acceleration etc.

Hope that made sense. Cheers in advance!

I think that the Innovate LC1 can be programed via some software and a laptop so that it can be used with 'funny' fuels! My LC1 came with a 9 pin serial connector, what laptop still uses a 9 pin!!! I had to buy a USB to serial converter. I think that the PDF manual tells your what the 'stoddy' AFR is for other fuels as well. You might not want to go for this figure anyway. I set my carb up to run as lean as the motor will tolerate whilst on cruise. (In my case 14.5:1 with the gauge showing 15:1 now and again) My motor will not run leaner than this, the repsonse goes down the pan whenever I try.

With an EFI setup you could probably run it leaner and still have throttle response. I believe that Rover ran them around 14:5:1 even with EFI because the oxides of Nitrogen go very high when the mixture goes lean.
I could be wrong about this, I think that I read it somewhere but as EFI is not my thing I only skim read it.

I run around 12.5:1 during acceleration and around 13.5:1 at WOT, all 'proper' fuel figures!!!


I would say that the LC1 is a bit of a pain to actually get working, well mine was! Basically I bought an LC1 and a digital gauge but they don't exactly 'plug' together! I used a Maplins plastic box to mount the gauge, its then a case of a hour or so soldering all the wires together. My setup is not permanently fitted to my car, it is a 'mobile' setup.

Apart from that it does work well, there is no guess work when messing about with the carb. One other thing that I did was reduce the refresh rate of the gauge to 1/3 seconds. (The slowest setting). The LC1 takes many more readings per second but averages it out and sends that number to the gauge, its still a bit tricky to read though!


Oh one more thing, keep the LC1 unit (not the probe) well away from any HT leads, my first one broke because it was cable tied near the dizzy

I'm looking for a similar thing- my MX has a AFR gauge on the dash constantly monitoring- I LOVE IT! But- it's not always practical to have another gauge, so I was going to just buy another kit and make a little rig up to make it a portable temporary thing- hadn't really thought about the proper workshop type ones. I already have a laptop which I keep in the garage with manuals, OBD etc on it, so a unit without a gauge would be fine.

After a quick look the Innovate ones seem to get a very mixed review

The innovate stuff is without a doubt good kit I also have an LMA3 which you can add to the setup and get EGT and a whole manner of other things. The LC1 can output as wideband but also as narrow band so your LPG controller will get a signal that it can understand.

Have three cars running Innovate LC-1 without any issues.
Two cars have the Autometer smallband gauge and one is bought complete with a digital gauge.

Innovate LC-1 systems can be programed by laptop (not USB but serial) to read funny fuels like alcohol and LPG.

Got them recommended by this forum years ago.
Got them from here ( also recomended by this forum years ago..) http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/sc ... tegory=118

AEM, Stack Innovate, FJO, Zeitronix, blablablabla

there are more than dozens of widebands out there.

If your gas system needs a narrowband to operate, leave the narrowband in place. Most of the simulated outputs arent that great.

As for AFRs and different fuels. Ignore them. tune for typical AFR's you would expect to see, unless you program the wideband for a different fuel. But that in itself is a little pointless, as it just applies different maths to the display output.

The wideband reads all fuels in exactly the same way, and doesnt care what its made of.

I went for a Tech Edge unit (WBo2 2Y with LDo2 display) - it's available as a DIY kit which means it can be repaired if it fails. That does also mean the ECU is rather larger than others since it uses standard size components rather than surface mount. But it's worked just fine in the 2 years I've had it.
The ECU size hasn't proved a problem - it is mounted alongside my MS where the original Lucas ECU was on my SD1.

As regards the sensor positioning, a WB one is less tolerant of heat than a narrowband one, so is usually mounted about 1 metre down the exhaust from the engine.

DaveEFI wrote:
As regards the sensor positioning, a WB one is less tolerant of heat than a narrowband one, so is usually mounted about 1 metre down the exhaust from the engine.

Oh dear that will cause a problem as it will be about a foot behind the rear of my car!


Ian

I'm running an LC1 with Emerald ECU, without any problems, it's fully programmable for the fuel you use. I have digital dash so just programmed one of the inputs to show the LC1 data, but you can also use a laptop. I compared mine to RR output when last on the rollers and it was the same.
I would recommend buying a new unit as they did have problems a few years back with the earlier units.

thanks for the replies guys- unfortunately this is going to have to wait 'til new year now as a few other less exciting things have sapped all my money! Will probably go with a new LC1.