The V8 Owners Forum -

Hi all,

This is probably an easy question for many of you - but I'm far from an expert on the various RV8 setups.

My truck with the old engine had a front cover that I believe (but could be wrong) was from a classic rangie




Not the best picture - but it's the only one I've got to hand.

Anyway - my question is what front cover / waterpump setup is going to give me the SHORTEST protrusion from the front of the block.

as it was - there was not enough clearance from the fan to the rad. And I would rather run a bigger rad if anything.

My thoughts are to explore the following options.

1. Get the 'shortest' possible standard RV8 setup with engine fan. If I can get something less than the 22cm from front face of the cyl heads to the front of the fan that is the current setup that would be a good start.

2. perhaps ditch the engine fan altogether and just run electrics (in front of the rad - blow through)

3. look at electric water pumps? All sorts of claims for liberating horsepower - which combined with removing the engine fan - sounds good to me if they are really up to the task.

Given all the above - that might mean I can get some kind of radical setup for the front - that has no water pump - and even ditch the dizzy (going to go for Megasquirt - so perhaps full electronic setup for this too)
so - maybe someone can point me in the direction of a front cover with no dizzy , waterpump - but just has an oil pump and takeoff for a remote filter? Is there such a thing?

Anyway - the main goal - is something shorter than 22cm...

Ideas guys? anyone got something they will part with for some beer tokens?

Cheers,
Ben

Ben,

Which Rover V8 engine do you have? it looks like it could be SD1 or possibly 3.5/3.9 range rover, if not sure the engine Number from next to the dipstick would be helpful.

Kevin.

Hi Kevin,

The engine number is impossible to read as the first number is obscured by a 'tab' on the heads.

The engine (hanging from the stand - not the old grotty one on the floor) was built for classic touring car racing, and apparently it is a 'vitesse' block (which to my limited knowledge would be an SD1?) 3.5l.

That said - it's got the Flapper injection system fitted from a TVR wedge.

is there anything else useful I can provide?

I've had a good look at the engine number - and cleaned the area up a bit... and...

By 'coops' engine numbers chart it is indeed a 9.75cr Vitesse 3.5 block.

I pulled the inlet manifold and had a bit of a poke about - ports etc are all very nicely done and matched to the inlet manifold which looks to be pretty nicely cleaned up too - bulleted guides etc. Good news and exactly as it was sold to me.

(The camshaft looks to have very little / no wear on the shoulders (actually the cam looks pretty much brand new - which is a relief)

on the side of the head theres a stamp 10.5 CR so whether I believe it or not is the question...

Anyway - thats all a bit off track for the current challenge...

I really love the idea of a front cover with nothing but oil pump and connections for remote filter - remote waterpump...

tried google / searching the forums but came up blank?

I've heard it said many thimes the shortest water pump is the P6 pump - I have one on the GT40 and I think it's still bloody long!

I've also seen an electric pump that fits onto the RV8 front cover and is supposedly short.
http://taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA%5F1536C

IAn

Think all those without a viscous coupling are the same - so P6, etc.

The later distributorless Range Rover P38 engines are the shortest.




But of course there's no distributor.....

Chris.

Chris - that's exactly the picture I was after - cheers!

So...

1. I had seen the P6 mentioned quite a few times as the 'shortest'... but it still looks bloody long to me (not sure how it compares to the one I have now? which I believe is as per the picture posted by Chris above)

2. the TA performance thing looks IDEAL - except that they recommend it for race use only?? I assume this is because it has a life measured in hours (anyone know - I've emailed them, but no answer yet? Is anyone using the TA performance setup?)

3. The SERP setup also looks promising - but from reading about it - it looks like it wont fit my SD1 3.5 block? ie - something to do with the crank - and obviously no dizzy drive...
So - I suppose I would need some kind of camshaft position sensor? I'm guessing the later v8s have this kind of sensor - but again guessing this wont fit my 3.5?

every answer brings more questions...

Thanks guys!!!!

oh - one other thought has occured to me...

Is it possible to machine down a waterpump?

I certainly know sod all about machining - but it kinda looks like there's no reason for the damned thing to poke out so far?

Has anyone tried shortening the housing / shaft etc on one of these (as per the above pic)

ps.. I measured my 22cm clearance from the flat face on the cylinder heads (where the lifting hooks bolt on) so I'm guessing that the 14cm length shown on the serp. v8 setup is actually about 16 or 17 cm using the same method I've used - or in other words - about 5cm shorter than the Rangie setup?)

anyone know how much shorter the P6 setup is than the range rover? i mean - i dont know if we are talking 5mm or 5cm here?

Cheers again guys!

tvrlux wrote:Chris - that's exactly the picture I was after - cheers!


2. the TA performance thing looks IDEAL - except that they recommend it for race use only?? I assume this is because it has a life measured in hours (anyone know - I've emailed them, but no answer yet? Is anyone using the TA performance setup?)



Thanks guys!!!!

I read that too and re read it a number of times.
I make out they are saying that the Electric Pump will mean you need an electric fan - and then they slate the other fans @ say fit one of our high power fans

I have never seen a fan (electric or otherwise) on a purely race car - air flow from the car moving does the cooling

Ian

Starting with a P6 pump,Yes the pump can be shortened by removing the flange, IIRC its only pushed on, then you need to find a renault water pump like this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WATER-PUMP-Renaul ... 5ad7ff49ea

both share a 19mm bore, you need to remove the renault pulley from the pump. easier said than done and push it onto the Rover shaft till it lines up with the bottom pulley, then you can now cut the excess pump shaft of with a grinder as its really hard, and cant be machined.

I read that too and re read it a number of times.
I make out they are saying that the Electric Pump will mean you need an electric fan - and then they slate the other fans @ say fit one of our high power fans

I have never seen a fan (electric or otherwise) on a purely race car - air flow from the car moving does the cooling

Ditto... No 'proper' race car would use a cooling fan... race cars don't spend time idling in traffic hence fans simply waste HP & cause less cooling flow through a radiator - so didn't make any sense to me...

So... not sure what gives - i mean an alternator has a pretty long life (basically a motor) - I'm guessing that the electric motor which drives the waterpump just wont have a long life... though I don't understand why it's not possible to use a decent motor if this is the case - there are all sorts of applications where long life & powerful 12v motors are used... maybe they just have to be physically to big to make it worthwhile?

[/quote]

...I found the above on http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Short ... r-Pump.htm

This looks like EXACTLY what I'm after... it was modified by Margus Auto Electric Exchange Inc. of Los Angeles

SO the challenge is to find someone in the UK who is willing to take on this challenge? I'm betting there would be a fairly interested market given that this shorty front cover thing is a recurring challenge!!

even nicer would be engineer the above so as it will marry up with the SERP drive pulley so I could benefit from all the nice bonuses that come with a serp drive.

I'm envisioning a little kit - a new bottom pulley to use the serp drive. A modified waterpump as above picture and custom pulley (or pehaps even standard rover serp pulley)

What do you guys think??

This way - i can see saving at gaining an inch (every inch counts...) at least of clearance? For me - this would mean a difference of 5mm radiator clearance vs 30 mm of radiator clearance

Anyone know a compentant machine shop - or want to have a go at making this??[/url]

tvrlux wrote:Chris - that's exactly the picture I was after - cheers!

So...

1. I had seen the P6 mentioned quite a few times as the 'shortest'... but it still looks bloody long to me (not sure how it compares to the one I have now? which I believe is as per the picture posted by Chris above)

2. the TA performance thing looks IDEAL - except that they recommend it for race use only?? I assume this is because it has a life measured in hours (anyone know - I've emailed them, but no answer yet? Is anyone using the TA performance setup?)

3. The SERP setup also looks promising - but from reading about it - it looks like it wont fit my SD1 3.5 block? ie - something to do with the crank - and obviously no dizzy drive...
So - I suppose I would need some kind of camshaft position sensor? I'm guessing the later v8s have this kind of sensor - but again guessing this wont fit my 3.5?

every answer brings more questions...

Thanks guys!!!!

The lack of dizzy is easy for sparks - you can get a trigger wheel which bolts onto the crank pulley. The oil pump driven off the dizzy might be more difficult - unless using a later engine.

Buick v6 with a transverse engine has a short front cover. A search may help.