HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

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jenko
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HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by jenko »

Hi All,

it's been a while...My Westfield V8 project has been put on hold for almost 3 yrs, but some unexpected extra time at home of recent has meant that I've been able to get it 'almost' finished.

So, today I tried cranking the engine (no fuel) for the first time, really more to check the starter wiring, and to make sure I was seeing some oil pressure.

My worst fears came true....no oil pressure what so ever!. I spent an age researching info on the set up and oil pump build. Some info on the set up here:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14335&p=110685#p110685

Before I rip the engine out in fit of rage, is there anything obvious that I could have missed?. The engine has been stood for 2 yrs, but it was all new (apart from heads) when I assembled it, I followed all the guidance on the pump assembly, packed it with vasoline lads of engine lube. Whats interesting is there is literally no pressure....the oil pressure light stays on, the gauge reads '0', not even a drip in the oil filter after cranking for about 10 seconds. Im really struggling to think what could cause this. The oil pick up pipe was installed with a gasket.....but nothing, no pressure and no evidence that there is any oil movement. 5lts of oil in the sump too. even if it was sucking in air from somewhere I would still have expected to see something.

What have I missed?.

HELP PLEEEEEEEESE????

Paul.


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jenko
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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by jenko »

In an attempt to answer my own post.....On the face of it, the only explanation that I can really think off is it's sucking in air. I pondered the question some time ago regarding the older style oil pick pipe that is located on the bottom of the crank case about half way along. I've not used this, my pick up is the later one attached direct to the front oil pump cover. BUT, the old pick - up was left open (i.e. I didn't blank it)....Thats gotta be it right??. Time to get the sum off...deep joy!.
Last edited by jenko on Fri May 15, 2020 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DaveEFI
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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by DaveEFI »

Crank or cam driven pump? But if been sitting for years, I'd be inclined to re-pack the pump with petroleum jelly. You could also remove the oil pressure switch and pump as much oil as you can into the gallery. I assume the filter was filled when fitting?
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jenko
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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by jenko »

Anyone know the function of these (do they tap into the oil way?):
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Ian Anderson
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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by Ian Anderson »

Add another couple of litres of oil so that the level is higher than the pump that way it will definitely prime. Or remove the dizzy and crank the pump with an electric drill and a bar that will sit in the slot normally filled by the dizzy.

Oil will flow ..... eventually

Ian
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jenko
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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by jenko »

DaveEFI wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 3:49 pm
Crank or cam driven pump? But if been sitting for years, I'd be inclined to re-pack the pump with petroleum jelly. You could also remove the oil pressure switch and pump as much oil as you can into the gallery. I assume the filter was filled when fitting?
Crank driven pump....The engine is effectively new....its a massive job getting the pump out, but take your point. My gut feeling is pump is spinning just fine. I could pour some oil in the passage, but Im not see a drop, feel this would not do anything.....Regarding the oil filter...I did not fill it!!!, which was a bit naughty.....but that can't be the problem can it??..
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jenko
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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by jenko »

Ian Anderson wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:09 pm
Add another couple of litres of oil so that the level is higher than the pump that way it will definitely prime. Or remove the dizzy and crank the pump with an electric drill and a bar that will sit in the slot normally filled by the dizzy.

Oil will flow ..... eventually

Ian
Alas, it's the crank driven pump set up, so the pick up sits right up into the oil pump. to get the oil level that high it would need to be above the sump gasket (probably need another 10 its to get it that high.. If it was a dizzy then yep, that would be a good idea.
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jenko
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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by jenko »

UPDATE....A well posed question from DaveEFI regarding the filling of the oil filter. I've just done this and after 2 turns of the crank the filter is completely empty. So, could it be that to bleed the system through it just needs a whole load more cranking and keep filling the oil filter, and actually there is nothing wrong?. Ians hypothesis of 'oil will flow eventually' could be spot on.....
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jenko
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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by jenko »

And a few more beers got me thinking if the oil filter is emptying.....Is the oil pump trying to pump aid through?....
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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by garrycol »

jenko wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:08 pm
Anyone know the function of these (do they tap into the oil way?):
Do not touch those - they are the cross bolts for the bearing caps and no they do not go into an oil way.

My 3.5 with a cam shaft driven oil pump sat for 10 years and it did not drain back and got oil pressure as soon as it started.

On my 4.6 with a crank driven oil pump - when I rebuilt the engine I I filled the oil filter and pumped in oil through the oil pressure light sender hole and I got pressure when it started.

In both cases oil pressure would not come up cranking with the starter - it was not until the engine fired that oil pressure came up immediately.

Fill your oil filter - any pickup of oil you are getting is going first to start filling the oil filter - remember the oil pressure light will not go off until the entire system is charged with oil.

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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by Ian Anderson »

I have never had this problem myself, but somewhere on here someone had a no oil flow problem, and found his oil filter had the valve that stops backflow fitted incorrectly/ wrong way round. Or was it that it had a valve and should not of had one? Sorry grey matter fades.

But simply .......Try a different brand of filter.
Ian
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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by minorv8 »

Do you crank with the spark plugs innthe heads ? If yes, remove them. You will get faster spinning crank and it way help.

Oil cooler fitted ? Cooler hoses fitted the wrong way ?

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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by DaveEFI »

If the filter and passageways are empty, the pump will have to fill those before you'll see any oil pressure. Which could take some cranking. Easier to try filling them than to strip the engine down?
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jenko
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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by jenko »

OK, thanks for all the replies thus far....I've checked the oil filter and it does have the rubber valve, but also this appears to be all going in the correct direction.....I have a remote oil filter set up, and the parts are labeled in and out, so its easy to see the oil flow direction. With plugs out I was able to really spin it around for quite a long time, and all done with the rocker cover off so I could see anything that resembled any oil coming through...nothing...dry apart from the engine lube I used when assembling the engine. oil light still on, no pressure registering on the gauge.

I've now taken the sump off, to jack the pick up pipe, and all seems well... also took some closer pics of the alternative older style pick up pipe location...it definitely goes into an oil way, but I think the front cover acts as a block to this.
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jenko
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Re: HELP - FIRST CRANK - NO OIL PRESSURE

Post by jenko »

This is where the other oil pick up goes....so the newer style front cover with the crank driven oil pump, must go over it to block it off.

So I feel like I'm back to square 1. I think the engine has spun enough times now that I really would expect to see oil in the engine. im stumped, next step is of course removing the oil pump. The only other thing I can think of is the remote oil filter 'in' 'out' tables are wrong!.
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