The V8 Owners Forum -

Hi there,

I am fairly new here (well, very new) but was told about this place by a friend who said some of you guys might be able to help?

I have a car with a 3.9 Rover V8 fitted, mated to a Borg Warner 65 autobox.

I am 99% sure the box is on its way out (will only reverse on a flat surface, hard shunt between 1st and 2nd....and won't drop into third until you rev the nuts off it in 2nd). I've checked the oil level and made sure it's all good there, checked the tension on the kickdown cable etc...but still no use. I have to be doing about 60mph in 2nd before it thinks of changing up.

I'm used to driving auto boxes so know about lifting the throttle to encourage them to change up, but this does not work either.

Anyway, the point of this post is to ask if anyone has any advice for an alternative auto? I have access to an LT77 but don't really want to go manual with this thing. A friend has a BW-35 but that seems like a bit of a backward step to me (except for the fact that that will probably work) and I was wondering what else I could consider as an easy-ish swap? Anything 4 speed that will bolt up to the RV8?

I am more than happy to do work to make it fit but ideally if there is a solution where the prop doesn't have to be lengthened or shortened that would be great. Any other fab work I can handle (gearbox mounts etc...)

Many thanks for your time.

Bruce.

Plenty of '66s around ex-SD1. They're a good box, if slightly crude. Later SD1s have the GM TH180. It achieves control over change speeds etc via a vacuum feed from the engine - which IMHO is a better way of doing things. It's also can't be maladjusted which is oh so common with cable operated boxes. It works very well - but I have a feeling isn't quite as long lived as a B-W box.
There's also a 4 speed ZF box which was fitted to ambulances, etc. It's quite a bit bigger so might need more mods.

Wow - thanks for the speedy response!

I'm liking the sound of the vac operated TH180 if it means not having to rely on cable adjustment for the kickdown. I think it's the kind of set-up where I'd be prepared to have a 'spare' box kicking around in case of failure. The access to the box/back of the engine is brilliant and will make for a quick and easy change when it comes to it.

The 4 speed ZF also sounds very tempting (for the fact it's a 4 speed) but I'd need to check how much bigger and in which dimensions, before getting my heart set on one of them.

On the ZF, is it the length or width or bellhousing that makes them bigger? I am sure I can modify the floor or transmission tunnel to match if needed?

Did the ZF come on any other cars and are they easy to adapt to fit the RV8?

Sorrry for so many questions! Thanks for your time.

I changed mine from a gm180 after that lost reverse, i managed to save some room by moving the engine forward an inch, this allowed enough clearence for the bulbous bell housing i went for the jag zf4 hp22 box, but it still requires all the parts from a range rover too complete, mine's on my webshots
http://community.webshots.com/album/555984531OGWDyt

Many thanks for the info.

I'm assuming the ZF HP22 box doesn't have any electrical gubbins or ECU? I think there might be room for it but I'm happy to cut things around to make something more 'useable' than the BW65 fit. So from what you're saying I'd need the torque converter, bellhousing, mounts and ??? (any info on which parts appreciated) from the Range Rover?

Would it be easier to get the Range Rover box and fit the tail section from something else or are the shift characteristics different between boxes?

Apologies again about asking so many questions. It's a new car to me and I want to do it 'right' if I can rather than throwing money on a box that seems to be getting hard to find (and is probably a bit long in the tooth?)

Thanks,

Bruce.

I think it's been said it's a nightmare to strip the box down just to change the tailhousing, Chris has a good write up on his site on how to strip a box http://www.cowdery.org.uk/zf.php
the jag box out of the 2.8 xj40 is the one too use, as you said no electronics on that one
Flexplate, varoius spacers/adaptors, torque convertor and bell housing from the range rover.
I also used an electronic speedo with a pick up on the prop as there's no provision for one.
My gearbox mount was made up as i went along from bit's of plate and angle !

The Sherpa 4HP22 is a direct fit - but you'll need the spacers etc for the torque converter. The installation was designed for the Range Rover, so to keep the same distance between engine and transfer box, it was decided to make a longer than needed bell-housing and space the TC off the flywheel.
This, of course, wasn't essential with the RWD only Sherpa, but to save re-engineering for such a low volume vehicle they used the same arrangement.

You can convert a RR box by fitting the tail piece and shaft from another RWD vehicle - BMW, etc - since Sherpa boxes are quite rare. It's not that difficult to do, provided you have a manual and take care to keep things clean. But then the same applies to overhauling a B-W etc box - and few attempt this.

Early ZF RR boxes have no electronics - later ones do.

You guys are, for want of a better word, AWESOME!

So much useful info, thank you.

You've sold me on the idea of a ZF 4spd and reading between the lines it looks like there are three ways to do this:

1) Sherpa van - direct fit but rare
2) Range Rover - direct fit but will need the tail section swapping for something 2WD (I think I may have a BMW auto box in my lock-up, I'll check today)
3) 2WD box from a Jag etc... - Needs bellhousing, TC, flexplate etc...from a Range Rover but tail section is good to go.

Option 1 is probably the ideal but least likely, so I guess it's now onto looking at option 2 & 3 to see which will work best for me. I'll have a look in my lock-up today to see what BMW autobox I have...if it's a ZF 4HP22 one then that might lead me towards hunting down a Range Rover box and looking at swapping the tail section.

Thanks again guys, I'll report back once I've got some more info....

It just so happens ive just taken a zf 4hp22 out of a ldv v8 ambulance so it comes complete with bellhousing for v8 & all the gubbins to go with it, yours for not a lot of money.

trev h wrote:It just so happens ive just taken a zf 4hp22 out of a ldv v8 ambulance so it comes complete with bellhousing for v8 & all the gubbins to go with it, yours for not a lot of money.

Where do I sign??

This is sounding promising....PM on its way, thanks Trev.

Personally I'd go for the ZF4HP22 non-electronic version. It's a darn good box IMHO.

You could get a 2WD box and switch the bellhousing (which is easier than getting a Range Rover box and switching the output shaft), but you might want to choose a box from something with a similar red-line on the rev-counter!).

I have this idea that the max engine speed is set by the governor, which although at the rear of the box, is very very easy to change. So maybe a Jag box, Range Rover bellhousing (and contents), and Range Rover governor.

In the bellhousing is a whole bunch of plates and spacers:

The left hand side is the crankshaft adaptor, and the torque converter bolts to the right hand side.

It's important to get a full set of those bits + torque converter, as there were different converters which were different sizes!!

Chris.

The jag box does have the "standard" output flange, where i think the bmw has a legged affair ? you might get lucky with a landy or range rover prop to suit or have shortened.

Thanks guys, the box is going in something that's a bit of a hybrid, so it's anyones guess as to what will fit....

...but luckily TrevH has kindly sorted me out with a 4HP22 from an LDV V8, so I am hoping to go and collect that tomorrow and see if I can make it fit in the hole.

I'm not sure if you can make it out in this pic, but there seems to be some room for a bigger box (widthways anyway) but you just never know until you go to fit it? Fingers crossed....

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i251/ ... e/FM14.jpg

9hrs on the road today and I now have a 4HP22 from an LDV V8 Ambulance.

Many thanks to Trev for letting me know about it, and for the hospitality today. It was great to meet you Dude.

Now to get it fitted.....fingers crossed.

I'm a bit confused - the picture is of a Landie with the ZF4HP22 fitted (i.e. a standard Range Rover box), and you are talking about a car / hybrid. What is this box going in?

Chris.