The V8 Owners Forum -

LandyV8 wrote:

DEVONMAN wrote:I can't really see from the photos, but the harmonic damper ring usually has the wide surface with the timing marks towards the engine.
If the ring has ever come off it's possible it has been replaced the other way round. If it feels at all loose then the pulley needs to go in the bin.

Regards Denis

It's on the right way ( I have two identical ones )
The timing marks are nearest to engine block. It's tight on the rubber. Is there any reason why a couldn't have a spacer made, 5mm thick to fit between the timing sprocket and the crank pulley? This would then push the crank pulley away from the engine and line it up with the pump pulley.

You say you have two identical ones
Why not compare all the pulleys you have.
If they are all the same then the problem is unlikely to be to do with the pulley.

DEVONMAN wrote:Before you proceed with a thinner washer and/or a longer bolt, Check that when the pulley is installed, the crank nose is just below the pulley bolt up surface.
I think your pulley has been shortened at some stage and it may be that a 5mm spacer will make it the correct length and there will therefore be no need for washer or bolt adjustment.

If your pulley has been shortened by 5mm then the crank nose will probably be proud of the pulley bolt up surface.

Regards Denis

The pulley hasn't been shortened as I have two P6 pulleys both identical lengths (unless they have both been shortened) Both of them have a slight chamfer on the end that touches the timing sprocket which I presume was machined when they were made

DEVONMAN wrote:

LandyV8 wrote:

DEVONMAN wrote:I can't really see from the photos, but the harmonic damper ring usually has the wide surface with the timing marks towards the engine.
If the ring has ever come off it's possible it has been replaced the other way round. If it feels at all loose then the pulley needs to go in the bin.

Regards Denis

It's on the right way ( I have two identical ones )
The timing marks are nearest to engine block. It's tight on the rubber. Is there any reason why a couldn't have a spacer made, 5mm thick to fit between the timing sprocket and the crank pulley? This would then push the crank pulley away from the engine and line it up with the pump pulley.

You say you have two identical ones
Why not compare all the pulleys you have.
If they are all the same then the problem is unlikely to be to do with the pulley.

Yes I totally agree but the fact remains the pump pulley and crank pulley do not line up!

There are three possible reasons for this
1: There is a missing component at the crank end. Eg a bush or similar

2: The P6 front cover is thinner than the SD1 cover (yes, I know people have already told me it isn't)

3: The pulleys never lined up when the engine left the factory

Remember I have matching P6 water pump and crank pulley.

Just to eliminate item 2 above, I have compared a P6 cover with an SD1 cover and they are of identical thickness at 83mm

I have also now measured a pulley and the groove in the harmonic damper ring is 110mm from the end that normally abuts the oil thrower disc/timing chain sprocket.

If your pulley is the same dimension then as you said everything points to something odd about the end of the crank/timing sprocket given that the omission of the oil thrower would only account for a 1mm missalignment.

With reference to Item 1 of your recent post. The only items that are fitted to the crank before the pulley is installed are the timing chain sprocket and the oil thrower disc. The only other part that could change the crank front to back location is the centre thrust bearing but even this could at worst only account for about 2mm front to back shift of the crank.

Confused

DEVONMAN wrote:I have also now measured a pulley and the groove in the harmonic damper ring is 110mm from the end that normally abuts the oil thrower disc/timing chain sprocket.

If your pulley is the same dimension then as you said everything points to something odd about the end of the crank/timing sprocket given that the omission of the oil thrower would only account for a 1mm missalignment.

With reference to Item 1 of your recent post. The only items that are fitted to the crank before the pulley is installed are the timing chain sprocket and the oil thrower disc. The only other part that could change the crank front to back location is the centre thrust bearing but even this could at worst only account for about 2mm front to back shift of the crank.

Confused

Just checked and yes my pulley is 110 mm from centre of grove to face that touches timing sprocket. Also the timing cover is also the same width as you quoted. Just one thought. Could it be possible that the water pump hub,which you bolt the pulley to, may of slipped along the water pump shaft?

LandyV8 wrote:

DEVONMAN wrote:I have also now measured a pulley and the groove in the harmonic damper ring is 110mm from the end that normally abuts the oil thrower disc/timing chain sprocket.

If your pulley is the same dimension then as you said everything points to something odd about the end of the crank/timing sprocket given that the omission of the oil thrower would only account for a 1mm missalignment.

With reference to Item 1 of your recent post. The only items that are fitted to the crank before the pulley is installed are the timing chain sprocket and the oil thrower disc. The only other part that could change the crank front to back location is the centre thrust bearing but even this could at worst only account for about 2mm front to back shift of the crank.

Confused

Just checked and yes my pulley is 110 mm from centre of grove to face that touches timing sprocket. Also the timing cover is also the same width as you quoted. Just one thought. Could it be possible that the water pump hub,which you bolt the pulley to, may of slipped along the water pump shaft?

Yes the hub could have moved but you have measured the pump and it compares ok to my new pump at 57.5mm. The shaft of the pump normally protrudes about 6mm beyond the hub face.
You have also stated that the Buick pump is the same as your pump so the pump is probably ok.

DEVONMAN wrote:

LandyV8 wrote:

DEVONMAN wrote:I have also now measured a pulley and the groove in the harmonic damper ring is 110mm from the end that normally abuts the oil thrower disc/timing chain sprocket.

If your pulley is the same dimension then as you said everything points to something odd about the end of the crank/timing sprocket given that the omission of the oil thrower would only account for a 1mm missalignment.

With reference to Item 1 of your recent post. The only items that are fitted to the crank before the pulley is installed are the timing chain sprocket and the oil thrower disc. The only other part that could change the crank front to back location is the centre thrust bearing but even this could at worst only account for about 2mm front to back shift of the crank.

Confused

Just checked and yes my pulley is 110 mm from centre of grove to face that touches timing sprocket. Also the timing cover is also the same width as you quoted. Just one thought. Could it be possible that the water pump hub,which you bolt the pulley to, may of slipped along the water pump shaft?

Yes the hub could have moved but you have measured the pump and it compares ok to my new pump at 57.5mm. The shaft of the pump normally protrudes about 6mm beyond the hub face.
You have also stated that the Buick pump is the same as your pump so the pump is probably ok.

Yes, you're right, I have. I'm grasping at straws now.

Did You rebuild the engine yourself and did you use an aftermarket timing chain set?

DEVONMAN wrote:Did You rebuild the engine yourself and did you use an aftermarket timing chain set?

I dismantled the engine myself, a company called For J Paynes http://www.fjpayne.com then checked the components over and supplied bearings rings etc. the timing chain was supplied by Rimmer Bros. My intention has always been to have a engine as near to original spec. It's only moving an old land rover along. I'm not planning any 1/4 mile runs.

I think we are all grasping at straws now.

The final but unlikely possibility is that the timing chain sprocket is fitted back to front. If you have lined up the timing marks yourself then the sprocket must be fitted correctly. The chain would also be out of alignment with the camshaft gear but the cam could have slid forward slightly to make things appear ok.

Some sprockets have a very large counter bore/countersink on the crank side to clear the slight radius on the end of the crank. If the sprocket is reversed, the crank pulley would sit in the counterbore and sit further back.

I would say it's time to remove the front cover for a looksy.

Regards Denis

DEVONMAN wrote:I think we are all grasping at straws now.

The final but unlikely possibility is that the timing chain sprocket is fitted back to front. If you have lined up the timing marks yourself then the sprocket must be fitted correctly. The chain would also be out of alignment with the camshaft gear but the cam could have slid forward slightly to make things appear ok.

Some sprockets have a very large counter bore/countersink on the crank side to clear the slight radius on the end of the crank. If the sprocket is reversed, the crank pulley would sit in the counterbore and sit further back.

I would say it's time to remove the front cover for a looksy.

Regards Denis

Thankfully I take pictures as I go. I'm pretty sure this is ok http://s144.photobucket.com/user/markwi ... ies2a%20V8

Yes, that looks ok.

Have you tried mounting the alternator to check which pulley V it lines up with.

Looking at the photo of your crank snout, it seems very long and more like a snout from a later serp engine

I have measured a water pump pulley and the centre of the V is 1.5mm closer to the engine than the mount face.

I've just measured two spare pulleys and both are 110mm as well.




I may have missed an earlier post Mark, but have you measured yours yet?


If yours turns out to be shorter you are more than welcome to have one of these mate. I was saving them in case I needed a belt groove machined into the damper in case I broke my pulley. I did break my pulley last year but still had a spare with the groove in it

Havent got a clue what engines they are from though.

Pel