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Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:39 am
by mgbv8
LandyV8 wrote:mgbv8 wrote:DEVONMAN wrote:
It dosen't look like it is as the pulley almost touches the water pump inlet neck on my son's engine. There seems to be a larger gap in the photo.
Having said that, LandyV8 did say he had also tried a buick pump and had the same misalignment.
Denis
Same here Denis!!
My pulley almost touches the inlet. And Landy's does not ?? Worth a try eh ??
The buick pulley is a one piece, can only go on one way. It has the same dimensions and clearances as the P6 pump but more room between radiator and pump nose. See here
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r190 ... hs4111.jpg
I see Mark!
But the first picture shows the rusty one with the removable pulley wheel which looks too far forward. Can this pulley be turned around to see weather it goes further back ?? If its on the right way round, rotating it will make ig go further forward by a good chunk.
Pel
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:09 pm
by Quagmire
Can I ask where you got the Buick pump from and how much it was?
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:53 pm
by mgbv8
I just measured mine at 135mm from the face of the block / face of the front cover to the centre of the pulley groove !!
How does that measure up against yours Mark ??
I also have a later cover and pump which measures 180mm face to centre!
Pel
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:48 am
by LandyV8
[quote="mgbv8"]I just measured mine at 135mm from the face of the block / face of the front cover to the centre of the pulley groove !!
How does that measure up against yours Mark ??
I also have a later cover and pump which measures 180mm face to centre!
Pel[/quote
Pel
I have uploaded a couple of photos here
http://s144.photobucket.com/user/markwi ... ies2a%20V8 which shows the pulley on the other way round. Has made the alignment much worst. (I had tried this though). Have also measured my crank pulley from the engine face to v in pulley and it is 134mm like yours. I guess we can presume that pulley is correct. Have you got a P6 water pump? Would you mind measuring the distance from the front cover face to the V in the pulley?
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:41 am
by DEVONMAN
Just measured a new water pump.
Distance from the mounting face to the pulley mounting face is 57.5mm
Regards Denis
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:15 am
by LandyV8
DEVONMAN wrote:Just measured a new water pump.
Distance from the mounting face to the pulley mounting face is 57.5mm
Regards Denis
Measured mine yesterday and like yours it is 57.5mm. I guess you are using a P6 pump
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:17 am
by LandyV8
Do I then accept that the P6 pump pulley and crank pulley will/was always 5mm out of alignment?
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:52 am
by DEVONMAN
LandyV8 wrote:Do I then accept that the P6 pump pulley and crank pulley will/was always 5mm out of alignment?
Some other possibilities:-
-The outer ring on the pulley has mover relative to the centre section. ie the harmonic damper rubber is knackered. The outer ring should be flush with the center part.
-Your front cover is not seated fully. The lower dowel may be holding it off a little and tilting the cover out at the bottom.
-Someone has machined the inner end of the pulley to suit another set up.
I have seen a pulley which had been machined/Shortened slightly (2mm)to give a fresh running surface for the oilseal.
-Some aftermarket pump and cover gaskets are much thicker than OE items.
- Timing chain sprocket thickness is wrong but I've never come across one 5mm thinner.
-Centre crankshaft thrust bearing not yet in place.
Regards Denis
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:16 am
by DEVONMAN
I can't really see from the photos, but the harmonic damper ring usually has the wide surface with the timing marks towards the engine.
If the ring has ever come off it's possible it has been replaced the other way round. If it feels at all loose then the pulley needs to go in the bin.
Regards Denis
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:40 pm
by LandyV8
DEVONMAN wrote:I can't really see from the photos, but the harmonic damper ring usually has the wide surface with the timing marks towards the engine.
If the ring has ever come off it's possible it has been replaced the other way round. If it feels at all loose then the pulley needs to go in the bin.
Regards Denis
It's on the right way ( I have two identical ones )
The timing marks are nearest to engine block. It's tight on the rubber. Is there any reason why a couldn't have a spacer made, 5mm thick to fit between the timing sprocket and the crank pulley? This would then push the crank pulley away from the engine and line it up with the pump pulley.
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:44 pm
by crayefish
LandyV8 wrote:DEVONMAN wrote:I can't really see from the photos, but the harmonic damper ring usually has the wide surface with the timing marks towards the engine.
If the ring has ever come off it's possible it has been replaced the other way round. If it feels at all loose then the pulley needs to go in the bin.
Regards Denis
It's on the right way ( I have two identical ones )
The timing marks are nearest to engine block. It's tight on the rubber. Is there any reason why a couldn't have a spacer made, 5mm thick to fit between the timing sprocket and the crank pulley? This would then push the crank pulley away from the engine and line it up with the pump pulley.
A longer crank bolt might be needed if you do that.
Would all this really be easier than just moving your rad forward an inch or coming up with a solution to put the fans at the front? You could then also sell all the more specalised front cover stuff you have and keep yours standard (and get a 4x4 waterpump).
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:29 pm
by mgbv8
LandyV8 wrote:mgbv8 wrote:I just measured mine at 135mm from the face of the block / face of the front cover to the centre of the pulley groove !!
How does that measure up against yours Mark ??
I also have a later cover and pump which measures 180mm face to centre!
Pel[/quote
Pel
I have uploaded a couple of photos here
http://s144.photobucket.com/user/markwi ... ies2a%20V8 which shows the pulley on the other way round. Has made the alignment much worst. (I had tried this though). Have also measured my crank pulley from the engine face to v in pulley and it is 134mm like yours. I guess we can presume that pulley is correct. Have you got a P6 water pump? Would you mind measuring the distance from the front cover face to the V in the pulley?
Thats interesting Mark !
I've just done a rebuild a a RV8 that has been cobbled together from a lot of odd parts. The engine has an early crank pulley but he has bolted and aux pulley onto the front of the crank pulley and fitted the water pump pulley back to front so it lines up with the crank pulley?
I cant send a pic because the engine is now away at my mates workshop for storage.
You are in Oxfordshire ! How far are you from Buckingham or Brackley?
I have a good few bits here and so does Tricky who's workshop is actually in Fritwell. I'm sure between us we could work out whats amiss if we could see the engine.
Regarding the option of moving the crank pulley forward with a spacer I cant see a problem with this at the moment. However, I would suggest that if you fit a spacer in place of the oil thrower ring to make it all line up, I would make another spacer ring to go inside the crank pulley to make up the gap between crank nose and the pulley mounting face. You could then take this distance off the thick washer that goes under the crank pulley bolt so you still have the same amount of thread going into the crankshaft. I have a local machine shop that could do these bits for you if you can do a sketch??
Pel
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:14 am
by LandyV8
mgbv8 wrote:LandyV8 wrote:mgbv8 wrote:I just measured mine at 135mm from the face of the block / face of the front cover to the centre of the pulley groove !!
How does that measure up against yours Mark ??
I also have a later cover and pump which measures 180mm face to centre!
Pel[/quote
Pel
I have uploaded a couple of photos here
http://s144.photobucket.com/user/markwi ... ies2a%20V8 which shows the pulley on the other way round. Has made the alignment much worst. (I had tried this though). Have also measured my crank pulley from the engine face to v in pulley and it is 134mm like yours. I guess we can presume that pulley is correct. Have you got a P6 water pump? Would you mind measuring the distance from the front cover face to the V in the pulley?
Thats interesting Mark !
I've just done a rebuild a a RV8 that has been cobbled together from a lot of odd parts. The engine has an early crank pulley but he has bolted and aux pulley onto the front of the crank pulley and fitted the water pump pulley back to front so it lines up with the crank pulley?
I cant send a pic because the engine is now away at my mates workshop for storage.
You are in Oxfordshire ! How far are you from Buckingham or Brackley?
I have a good few bits here and so does Tricky who's workshop is actually in Fritwell. I'm sure between us we could work out whats amiss if we could see the engine.
Regarding the option of moving the crank pulley forward with a spacer I cant see a problem with this at the moment. However, I would suggest that if you fit a spacer in place of the oil thrower ring to make it all line up, I would make another spacer ring to go inside the crank pulley to make up the gap between crank nose and the pulley mounting face. You could then take this distance off the thick washer that goes under the crank pulley bolt so you still have the same amount of thread going into the crankshaft. I have a local machine shop that could do these bits for you if you can do a sketch??
Pel
Pel
I need to check some basics. When I push the crank pulley onto to crankshaft it comes to a stop when the pulley comes into contact with the timing chain sprocket. Is this correct? If I make a spacer of 5mm to fit between pulley and sprocket all I need to do then is use a thinner washer with the bolt or use a 5mm longer bolt. Correct?
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:21 am
by DEVONMAN
Before you proceed with a thinner washer and/or a longer bolt, Check that when the pulley is installed, the crank nose is just below the pulley bolt up surface.
I think your pulley has been shortened at some stage and it may be that a 5mm spacer will make it the correct length and there will therefore be no need for washer or bolt adjustment.
If your pulley has been shortened by 5mm then the crank nose will probably be proud of the pulley bolt up surface.
Regards Denis
Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:59 pm
by mgbv8
DEVONMAN wrote:Before you proceed with a thinner washer and/or a longer bolt, Check that when the pulley is installed, the crank nose is just below the pulley bolt up surface.
I think your pulley has been shortened at some stage and it may be that a 5mm spacer will make it the correct length and there will therefore be no need for washer or bolt adjustment.
If your pulley has been shortened by 5mm then the crank nose will probably be proud of the pulley bolt up surface.
Regards Denis
Good point Denis!!
Maybe a PO has modified in the past ?
