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Re: The old chestnut of HGF....
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:48 pm
by stevieturbo
Misterb_57 wrote:Finally got round to getting underneath the engine to try and see where the coolant and oil leak was coming from. Up until then I believed it was coming out of the rear seal and or back of block.
I was surprised and disappointed to see it coming from the head gasket on both sides, particularly since the engine has only done around 2k since rebuild/install.
Looking back through the posts here it seems to be a fairly regular issue with composite gaskets and stretch bolts - and I built mine with both!
So now I need some advice on replacements...
I'm not a fan of tin gaskets, so which are the best comp gaskets and are any available with extra sealant around the oilway & waterway?
Does copper gasket sealant improve the sealing of comp gaskets?
Studs v non stretch (HT) bolts - are studs worth the extra dosh?
Any other tips or hints?
Just to confirm that it's a 3.5, P6 'S' block with 14 bolt SD1 heads (outer bolts just pinched). The block and heads have been skimmed and were flat and true when installed.
Chris.
I assume it isnt apart yet ?
And unless I am mistaken...water only passes through the HG at one place on each side. ie the rear of the block/head.
So there'd need to be something pretty major wrong for it to leak here.
Is this where yours is leaking ?
Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:35 pm
by mgbv8
Misterb_57 wrote:Although my torque wrench is old I've always (without fail) wound it back to zero after use. Will get it checked out first, before I shell out on a new one.
Thanks for all you posts and comments. Definately be checking the heads and decks again - both have been skimmed!
Who sells Elring gaskets.
Trouble is I put the engine back together years ago (2007) and then parked it in a corner, while I finished the restoration - then last year it all came together. So Im struggling to recall details.
My last few came from John eales, but I have also bought them in these sets from isalnd 4x4.
http://www.island-4x4.co.uk/head-gasket ... -6566.html
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:37 am
by unstable load
DaveEFI wrote:Oh indeed. I have torque screwdrivers too. Just nothing that does 15 ft.lb.
Sir, you need to go shopping.....
https://store.snapon.com/US-Torque-Inst ... 40948.aspx
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:05 am
by Misterb_57
After thinking some more about this, I don't think I installed the stretch bolts correctly and probably only tightened them to 70ft lbs as per the manual, rather than the correct half turn that puts stretch/tension on (you live & learn!)
So I spent yesterday afternoon on the web, doing some more research and looking at options.
This is what I came up with:
Head bolts - the 3 options appear to be, Standard HT bolts (if you can still find them), stud kit or stretch bolts.
Gaskets - tin, composite or MLS (although I haven't found these for the 3.5). Elring don't appear to make composites for the 3.5 either.
If I go with the stud kit and composite gaskets am I still going to need to retorque after a few hundred miles? I'm guessing I won't need to with tin gaskets?
Stretch bolts & composites seem to be the way to go to avoid re-torquing.
Tin gaskets will up the compression ratio but as its only 9:1 on composites, I'm guessing around 9.5 on tin?
Your thoughts appreciated....
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:33 am
by stevieturbo
Surely an old engine like that would always have used tin gaskets anyway ?
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:03 am
by DaveEFI
Tin head gasket failure on a standard 3.5 engine isn't common anyway. Many engines were built like this - if it was, Rover would have done something about it anyway. Same with standard bolts, correctly torqued.
Only reason I'm now on composite is I bought some Stage1 heads which had been planed down for composite.
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:36 pm
by JP.
Why Elring ?? I agree, proper branded gaskets from Elring or Reinz is the one I prefer on all my engine builds too but...
RealSteel Composite gaskets for 3.5 are just 15 quit each.
And they holt up well. I just didn't use the outer row of head bolts when I was running stock heads and 10psi boost ( running Merlin heads & boost on my 3.5 with the same gaskets now.)
They even sell stock headbolts.
http://www.realsteel.co.uk/section1.pdf
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:01 am
by SimpleSimon
JP. wrote:Why Elring ?? I agree, proper branded gaskets from Elring or Reinz is the one I prefer on all my engine builds too but...
RealSteel Composite gaskets for 3.5 are just 15 quit each.
And they holt up well. I just didn't use the outer row of head bolts when I was running stock heads and 10psi boost ( running Merlin heads & boost on my 3.5 with the same gaskets now.)
They even sell stock headbolts.
http://www.realsteel.co.uk/section1.pdf
Elrings are only £14 each why chance any thing else they are proven on many tuned motors inc both SC'ed and Turbo'd
just my cents worth am sure Payen BGA etc would be fine but why bother
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:10 am
by stevieturbo
Having never seen or used an Elring I would choose Payen as I know they are OE quality but I think even some BGA stuff is too
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:21 am
by SimpleSimon
stevieturbo wrote:Having never seen or used an Elring I would choose Payen as I know they are OE quality but I think even some BGA stuff is too
Every post tin HG RV8 I have lifted heads on have come with Elring which I know are OE LR fitted, but yes Stevie Payen BGA are trust worthy but if I couldn't find Elring I would search out Victor Reinz hg's
