The V8 Owners Forum -

stevieturbo wrote:

DaveEFI wrote:Ah. I've not needed help, but did notice there was a forum for this, so supposed it worked like the MS one. Or this one, come to that.

Innovate has a forum too...but when there are inherent flaws with the product, no amount of forums will fix it.

Right. But if there is an inherent flaw, get your money back and buy something which hasn't?

Innovate does seem to come in for a lot of stick (not surprising since it has the biggest sales) - which is why I went for Tech Edge some years ago. But since then there are several newer and apparently good value products on the market - as tends to happen with electronics if the demand increases. I was attracted by being able to get a DIY assembly kit - same as MS in the US. The idea being if I built it I might be more able to fix it if ever necessary.

DaveEFI wrote:

stevieturbo wrote:

DaveEFI wrote:Ah. I've not needed help, but did notice there was a forum for this, so supposed it worked like the MS one. Or this one, come to that.

Innovate has a forum too...but when there are inherent flaws with the product, no amount of forums will fix it.

Right. But if there is an inherent flaw, get your money back and buy something which hasn't?

Innovate does seem to come in for a lot of stick (not surprising since it has the biggest sales) - which is why I went for Tech Edge some years ago. But since then there are several newer and apparently good value products on the market - as tends to happen with electronics if the demand increases. I was attracted by being able to get a DIY assembly kit - same as MS in the US. The idea being if I built it I might be more able to fix it if ever necessary.

You have to get the supplier to recognise that the unit has faults for them to replace...and if you buy from US/Aus, replacements wont come with free postage etc. So often more hassle than it's worth.

Innovate would argue that how their controllers operate make them faster and more accurate than anything else, and they wont tolerate sensor problems.

Yet every other wideband on the market, and of course VW/Bosch themselves use the same sensor and dont have as many problems...and there are far more out there than Innovate have

If you by quality product in the first place, you dont need to fix or f**k about with anything. It will just work.
The last thing i want is to have to f**k about tracing DIY built parts when something goes wrong.

But it's how Innovate control the sensor is the biggest flaw with their product, although they'd say it's a positive. The actual gear itself is very good quality and well made. But because it gets so unhappy with sensors...I wouldnt buy another ( even though as said, I still use an old LM-1 car to car, mainly because it's very handy for that purpose )

Keep meaning to buy an alternative brand instead of new sensors though...maybe someday lol

On my own car I've had an FJO wideband in it since 2001 and apart from a couple of sensors, it has been and still is faultless.
Other sensor is controlled directly from the ecu so no need for external controllers in that respect.

FJO dont make them anymore though

Yeh must admit I wondered if I did the right thing buying from the states years ago with the LM2 especially after the freezing thing but back then the forum was still active, then after reading the shipped firmware was buggy I updated it which was a doddle and its worked fine ever since that was about 4 years ago and so far I have had no trouble with the original WB sensor but after reading about the differing heat pump tech I see that Innovate does things differently and not always for the good.

I'd not have bought the Tech Edge kit if I'd heard it had any problems. I had read several posts saying how well it worked - and so it has proved. Still on the original sensor too.

I'd also read of several having problems when Innovate changed the output grounding arrangements to a common ground for power and signal. My Tech Edge gives you the choice.

But I'm sure there are cheaper alternatives which are just as good now.

Given the price of the Techedge, it's packaging lets it down badly. It just looks cheap and nasty, crappy connectors etc.

The PLX stuff is decent, some of their gauge setups are fantastic, but again their controllers come with crappy Alu cases and connectors too which would certainly put me off buying them

But really, there must be at least 30+ wideband options out there these days, maybe even 50+

The FAST stuff actually looks very neat if you arent concerned about a small display

http://efi-world.com/product/fast-wide-band-methanol/

Daytona Sensors makes some nice little square box units ( some crap looking ones too lol ), and a nice dual display/controller. Not the cheapest though. But for say a carb install, they also offer limited logging of another couple of parameters too which could be handy

http://www.daytona-sensors.com/products.html

If you just want a wideband with a digital display and a logger module try the Zeitronix stuff. I use two of these on the V8 and they have been great.

Talk to Chris here:

http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php?categoryID=87

They are in Runcorn, Cheshire. Very helpful too.

I also recommend the AEM Digital wideband UEGO controller part# 30 - 4100. Looks good, works well, easy to install.

Hi,

Found this on Tech Edge worth a watch.



Still haven't made the purchase thou still looking on how to marry up the two O2 sensors for each bank.

Or should i just use the one as its EFI, so it should be balanced?

cheers

Jim

You can monitor one, and assume the other is ok.

You can monitor further back if all cylinders are combined somewhere in the exhaust, or you can do the best thing, and monitor both banks properly.

Obviously the latter costs more.

Really up to you.

If using batch injection, you'd not best group each bank together anyway.
And I can't think of a reason why one bank would be different from the other?

If using fully sequential where you can trim individual cylinders, one sensor per bank isn't going to be of that much use either? You need to measure each cylinder?

DaveEFI wrote:If using batch injection, you'd not best group each bank together anyway.
And I can't think of a reason why one bank would be different from the other?

If using fully sequential where you can trim individual cylinders, one sensor per bank isn't going to be of that much use either? You need to measure each cylinder?

airflow issue, exhaust leak, intake leak, faulty injector or simply differing flow injectors, worn cam, lifter/rocker issue, poor sealing valves/compression on a cylinder.

There are many many reasons why they could be different...but of course no they shouldnt be different

But that's part of diagnosing issues....by having the information to be able to diagnose.

But all of those would show up on a single O2 sensor too?

They are pretty expensive devices to fit two of for no real reason, IMHO.

DaveEFI wrote:But all of those would show up on a single O2 sensor too?

They are pretty expensive devices to fit two of for no real reason, IMHO.

Not if you only had one lambda monitoring only one bank.

Widebands are dirt cheap these days, £150 is nothing for what they are and offer.

Obviously if your exhausts merge into a single pipe, you can monitor all 8 cylinders via that.

But it is handy to keep an eye on both banks where possible, but yes it will cost more money. ( and yes, for years I only paid attention to one bank and relied on the assumption the other bank is the same so it certainly isnt essential )

But the more info you have about the engine the better