V8 FILTERS

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Post by slice »

Darkspeed wrote:Can you also give the other parameters for the 4GPM and 14GPM because without the figures are ..... just that.

Andrew
hi Andrew, yes i do have some more data for you...

in regard to filter efficiency

Standard paper filter:
10 micron particle capture efficiency of 0%
30 micron efficiency of 68%
due to its lack of open media area (large diameter paper fibres) its maximum rated flow is 4.76 gallons per minute

my glassfibre filter:
10 micron efficiency 73%
30 micron efficiency 100%
due to its its finer stronger fibres it has more media openings (voids) for the oil to flow through so its max rated flow is 14.27 gallons per minute

One thing i forgot to mention earlier is that there is a difference in filter length too.

The standard filter canister has a height of 95mm

To improve flow capabilities, dirt holding capacity and extend service life my filter has a height of 137mm...so 42mm longer than the standard paper filter unit.

Is that enough info Andrew or do you need more?

cheers

dave


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Post by slice »

Darkspeed wrote:Can you also give the other parameters for the 4GPM and 14GPM because without the figures are ..... just that.

Andrew
more data for you Andrew

PAPER FILTER PERFORMANCE
10 micron capture efficiency - 0%
30 micron efficiency - 68%

GLASSFIBRE FILTER PERFORMANCE
10 micron efficiency - 73%
30 micron efficiency - 100%

the standard filter is 95mm in length
My filter is 137mm in length

this gives my filter extra dirt holding capacity and greater oil flow capacity

because of the paper media construction (large diameter fibres waste dirt holding capacity due to its bulky construction) the paper media filter has a maximum flow rate of 4.76 gallons per minute

my filter has finer fibres thus more voids for the oil to flow through and ultimately block with contamination.
because of this my filter max flow rate is 14.27 gallons per minute.

Is this enough info Andrew or do you need more?

cheers

dave
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Post by Darkspeed »

Actually Dave i was looking for the data that was associated with the stated flow rates

Such as

A single grade 30 oil at 20C at 2 psi pressure drop

Andrew
4.5L V8 Ginetta G27

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Post by slice »

Darkspeed wrote:Actually Dave i was looking for the data that was associated with the stated flow rates

Such as

A single grade 30 oil at 20C at 2 psi pressure drop

Andrew
ok andrew i understand - at present i dont have the differential pressure curves for varying viscosities...this info is available but i will have to refer back to fleetguard.
it may take a couple of days but i will be able to give you the info early next week

good question!! will be back to you soon

Dave
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v8 rover engine oil pump flow rates

Post by slice »

just wanted to pick your brains a bit so i can forward more info to you...

could someone let me know how many sizes of oil pumps are available for the rover v8 engine pls

i would like to know the displacement per revolution perhaps so i can establish what the maximum oil flow rate will be

thanks

dave
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my ppt presentation

Post by slice »

Eliot wrote:Dont spend time posting it.
My mail server should accept 85 meg - although yours may not.
or try zipping it up or ftp it somewhere.
Hi eliot,
sorry for the delay, i know my way around filters....but computers!!
ok so the presentation is now on my memory stick . tonight we will convert to a pdf and it will be on its way to you tomorrow

cheers, thanks

dave
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Post by slice »

Darkspeed wrote:Actually Dave i was looking for the data that was associated with the stated flow rates

Such as

A single grade 30 oil at 20C at 2 psi pressure drop

Andrew
ok andrew i have gathered some info for you...

the single grade 30 oil has a viscosity of 83 centistokes at 20 degrees C. this is quite cold for an engine oil as you can well imagine so although the info hasnt come through yet but from experience i would bet that under these conditions the bypass valve would have opened up to some degree - so whatever pump flow we had in the first place, a certain percentage is passing over the bypass and not through the filter media.

will be back to you with more soon

cheers
dave
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Post by Darkspeed »

Hello Dave,

The figures I quoted were purely as an example to identify the type of parameters I would look for to quantify the flow rates quoted -I am not looking for the flow rate for that oil at that temperature.

To be honest for the good old rover V8 the specific parameters would be a 20/50 multi at 85C at the rover pump flow rate at 3500rpm - sorry though I cannot furnish the RV8 pumps flow rate.

I will play devils advocate here and state say I would have expected you to already have the pump flow rates if selecting a filter for a specific engine :wink:

Andrew
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Post by Eliot »

Darkspeed wrote:I will play devils advocate here and state say I would have expected you to already have the pump flow rates if selecting a filter for a specific engine :wink:
Andrew
That was my thought a page ago...
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Post by Eliot »

I've been sent the PDF of the slide show presentation mentioned on the other page - you can find it here:
http://homepages.plus.net/ashleyhooks/V ... 0START.pdf
Eliot Mansfield
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Post by slice »

Darkspeed wrote:Hello Dave,

The figures I quoted were purely as an example to identify the type of parameters I would look for to quantify the flow rates quoted -I am not looking for the flow rate for that oil at that temperature.

To be honest for the good old rover V8 the specific parameters would be a 20/50 multi at 85C at the rover pump flow rate at 3500rpm - sorry though I cannot furnish the RV8 pumps flow rate.

I will play devils advocate here and state say I would have expected you to already have the pump flow rates if selecting a filter for a specific engine :wink:

Andrew
You're absolutely right - i should have the flow rates to hand... in the dim & distant past 4 years ago when the project started that pump flow info was indeed gleaned from a rover v8 boffin.
but old age and memory just dont go together though unfortunately so hence the question again!
no doubt if i rummage through paperwork i might find it.

what i do remember is that we wanted something better... something with far better properties.
You see from the pdf presentation the fine glassfibre media gives you that vastly improved flow and dirt holding (and dirt retention) facility.

also explained is the fact that the filter canister is marginally longer than the original. as you can well imagine this further improves dirt holding and flow capabilities. :)

I will rummage tonight and see what i can find
in the meantime do you have any other concerns?

thanks
dave
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Post by slice »

Darkspeed wrote:Hello Dave,

The figures I quoted were purely as an example to identify the type of parameters I would look for to quantify the flow rates quoted -I am not looking for the flow rate for that oil at that temperature.

To be honest for the good old rover V8 the specific parameters would be a 20/50 multi at 85C at the rover pump flow rate at 3500rpm - sorry though I cannot furnish the RV8 pumps flow rate.

I will play devils advocate here and state say I would have expected you to already have the pump flow rates if selecting a filter for a specific engine :wink:

Andrew
Hi Andrew,

in my travels today i had time to reflect on the questions that were asked - and it became brutally clear - nobody trusts the quality of my filter!! Well its understandable.. none of us like change eh?

so i came up with a plan

seeing as you are over in Wem then you're just 10 minutes away from me in nantwich, so....

this weekend i will drop off two filters for you.

the first filter: i would like you to weigh it up, give a cursory and sceptical look over, give it a touchy feely and see if you think it has a quality feel about it... then i would like you to attack it with a good saw - cut it open and look inside. check out the overall quality of the filter construction.
then pull the element out and cut that open so you can explore the 5 layer steel mesh and glassfibre media pack.
I would also ask that you carry out the same exercise with a standard paper media filter - then give me an honest opinion on each of the filter canisters and their media pack construction strength.
Bear in mind that i dont make my filters - i just came up with the idea... I leave the difficult stuff to Fleetguard!!

the second filter is there for you to do as you like with it... just leave it in the garage, throw in the bin, use as a paperweight...its up to you. but if you are now feeling more confident about overall quality then pls install it on your Ginetta.

also, if you're worried about installing it on you pride & joy... bear in mind that i have covered just over 35000 miles now in just over 13 months.
i am on my second filter now (first one changed at 20000 miles) and i havent had one moments problem with them
they just sit there doing a great job of keeping my oil clean - and i have the confidence and peace of mind that my engine is being very well protected and my filter is extending the life of it and all its components.

just one more thing - i have a copy of an oil analysis study (conducted over a 10 year period) by a brilliant Tribologist named Jim Fitch.
he concluded overwhelmingly that the motor industry should follow the lead of the industrial hydraulics sector and implement finer filtration on car engines.
Industrial hydraulics adopted the use of absolute rated glassfibre filters over 25 years ago.
Jim Fitch is simply the oracle when it comes to filtration and oil analysis.
if we do get together this weekend andrew then i will bring the article over for you to read.

anyway enough of the waffle

any more questions please send them over

thanks

dave
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Post by Darkspeed »

Hello Dave,

Just for the effort and work you have put in with this I thought fair enough I will give one a go - At the end of the day the filter is only the same price as the oil that goes in the car and the engine has bills that make the price of the filter cost pretty irrelevent.

If you want to drop/send a couple over I will be happy to pay for one of them - the drawback with the Ginetta is that its now off the road for the next 6 months so I will not be able to offer any immediate feedback I also have the problem that my car uses a remote filter and the position is such that end up using a shorter filter than stock.

As the car is having a fair bit of prep being done to it before taking to the hills next year and as I am having to relocate the rack I will change the location of the remote so that I can fit your filter.

I have two Mann filters on the shelf so will cut one up to make a comparison to the filters I usually fit.

If the filters come up to scratch then I will do a write up for the Ginetta owners club on them - we have quite a few RV8's in G33's that could well be interested.

Will drop you a PM with my contact details

Andrew
4.5L V8 Ginetta G27

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Post by Eliot »

How come you have focussed just on the RV8 filter?
What about the yank v8's - as you may find there are one or two of those lying around...
SBC uses a fram PH30

Going forwards, I think you need to get these filters onto some high-profile engines (read: expensive) in order to convince people that your filter isn't going to kill the engine.

You need to sponsor a race series or the like and make sure they all use your filters etc.
Eliot Mansfield
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Post by Coops »

I use the shorter filter as used on fords on my v8, ( i know im a pain)
due to space limitation,
as Elliot said are you just sticking to Rv8 filter application??
Regards Tony C (COOPS)
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