V8 FILTERS

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Post by slice »

Hi Eliot, Tony

thanks for your input, suggestions and encouragement!!

in the first instance i chose the rover v8 mainly because it was prevalent in the TVR's, many kit cars (cobras) and in land rovers (the diesels and the v8's).
i would have liked to begin my trial with a TVR Griff but finances didnt allow that so i bought a 3.9v8 land rover instead - just so i could gather test data.
so, with the rover v8 i had quite a large established potential customer base so yes thats where i started.

as i have indicated (many times...yawn, yawn) being in oil filtration for so many years i knew the results would be good.
i imagined that once the results were published there would be a queue outside my door for them!!

as you rightly say, despite all the data and all the results and photos of filter membranes with varying levels of contamination, people are sceptical (and nervous) about trusting them on thier pride and joy.

i thought because they're manufactured by Fleetguard would give them credibility... not happened yet!!!

yes, in the first instance it was my strategy to concentrate on just one filter model... just to test the market then diversify as (and when) the business started growing.

anyway, i'm not giving up yet... gone too far to give up so soon, so i decided to exhibit at the Exeter kit car show 21st/22nd November

thanks again for your encouragement guys

best regards

dave


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topcatcustom
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Post by topcatcustom »

Hi Dave, when my engine is in and I see how much space I have I'll be trying one, it is slowly getting through!
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Post by bobtail84 »

Dave, what advantage would you filter be to my V8?

My RR spend's a lot of time going to and from work an just making noise as I like the noise... But I do also enter a lot of event's in which the motor will spend probably 5 of the 6 hour's ticking over at no more than 1500ish rpm. If there is a speed section I will run on petrol as I'm still sorting MegaSquirting LPG but most of the time I'm running on LPG. I change the oil and filters every 2000 or so miles because of the time ticking over as the oil is very nearly black.
Also can I re-use the filter if I change the oil regularly? I might not have spent the wife's shopping budget on my V8 but I do need to have a reliable motor.

jeff
Range Rover 3.9 with MegaSquirt and EDIS

www.essex-ms.co.uk

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Post by Darkspeed »

Good to his word Dave has dropped off two filters today - one to fit to the Ginetta and one to chop up.

Initial thoughts in comparison to the Mann (German made) filters that I normally use is there is a clear difference in the quality, Dave's V8F being far superior and it's easy to see where the extra cost is involved even before chopping one up.

Looking into the two filters you can see the paper element in the Mann through the inner perforated steel sleeve. Looking into the V8F the inner sleeve perforations are bigger and the filter is best described as looking like the same construction as a KN filter the filter media being supported in a fine wire mesh.

Looks quite impressive so far and it will be shame to chop it up.

Andrew
4.5L V8 Ginetta G27

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Post by slice »

topcatproduction wrote:Hi Dave, when my engine is in and I see how much space I have I'll be trying one, it is slowly getting through!
hi TC, thanks for your confidence in my product, i have plenty in stock - just let me know when you're ready

dave
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Post by Eliot »

slice wrote:
as you rightly say, despite all the data and all the results and photos of filter membranes with varying levels of contamination, people are sceptical (and nervous) about trusting them on thier pride and joy.

dave
I would say I'm less sceptical now, given the info we have seen here - but would still be nervous (which may be irrational) in case it caused a problem.

Would it not be easier to licence your invention to one of the known manufacturers for say a commision of 1p per filter? I trust you have a patent on it?
Eliot Mansfield
5.7 Dakar 4x4, 4.6 P38 & L322 TDV8
www.mez.co.uk / www.efilive.co.uk

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Post by slice »

bobtail84 wrote:Dave, what advantage would you filter be to my V8?

My RR spend's a lot of time going to and from work an just making noise as I like the noise... But I do also enter a lot of event's in which the motor will spend probably 5 of the 6 hour's ticking over at no more than 1500ish rpm. If there is a speed section I will run on petrol as I'm still sorting MegaSquirting LPG but most of the time I'm running on LPG. I change the oil and filters every 2000 or so miles because of the time ticking over as the oil is very nearly black.
Also can I re-use the filter if I change the oil regularly? I might not have spent the wife's shopping budget on my V8 but I do need to have a reliable motor.

jeff
Hi Jeff,

i run my 3.9v8 discovery on lpg all the time, i do a much higher mileage than you though but because lpg is a much cleaner burning fuel (and having finer filtration installed) i could very clearly see all the markings on the dipstick even after 20000 miles which is when i decided to finally change oil & filter.
even though you're running on tick over for extended periods the finer filter will take out a major portion of the carbon/soot from circulation. You will still see some discolouration but your oil would no longer be so black with a finer filter, it will be a darkish amber/brown colour.

the soot though is non damaging and of a soft composition - in some instances particles of soot that were previously captured by the filter will often deform and then pass through the media (known as colloidal deformation to give it the correct terminology) hence there will always be some discolouration.

most important though... the rigid steel mesh supported, epoxy bonded glassfibre media does not flex under these conditions...so captured particles of solid debris (silica and wear metals) stay captured thus normal wear processes are halted.

theres no reason why you couldnt run to at least 10000 miles with finer filtration onboard.
(incidentally i do like to run on semi synthetic oil (valvoline 10w40) because of the enhanced properties and extended service life)

if you get the chance have a browse through the test data on that pdf presentation that eliot posted - that explains it quite well, but if you have any other questions pls dont hesitate

dave
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Post by slice »

Eliot wrote:
slice wrote:
as you rightly say, despite all the data and all the results and photos of filter membranes with varying levels of contamination, people are sceptical (and nervous) about trusting them on thier pride and joy.

dave
I would say I'm less sceptical now, given the info we have seen here - but would still be nervous (which may be irrational) in case it caused a problem.

Would it not be easier to licence your invention to one of the known manufacturers for say a commision of 1p per filter? I trust you have a patent on it?
Hi eliot,

yes i explored the possibility of a patent (spoke at great lengths to a prominent patent lawyer in manchester) he was very thorough and knowledgeable.
Ultimately i havent really invented anything - such filter performance and product capabilities (absolute rated glassfibre media) has been available in the industrial hydraulics sector for more than 23 years (which is when i started in the industry)
yes it would be nice to think i was protected in some way but the patent process could have taken 4 years or more (before the product could be launched!!)and in excess of £10000 and even then might not have been successful!
so i simply went ahead anyway

yes i simply came up with the idea (just because i always wanted a v8 - but not until i could protect it with good filtration)
then because of my long standing contacts in the industry (and in particular with Fleetguard) that they manufacture for me.

dave
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Post by Darkspeed »

I will have a go at following the procedure and report that was carried out in the filter investigation that I posted a link to some time back.

If you have an hour or so to spend its worth while digging the post out following the links and having a look at it. Just search "Oil filters"

Interestingly revisiting that link there is mention of the absolute rating glass filter media and its worth reading.

Andrew
4.5L V8 Ginetta G27

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Post by Darkspeed »

I had a bit of time this evening to get the filters on the lathe and slice the casings and take a few photo's

I will get the pictures uploaded and post them tomorrow at some point.

One thing that was clearly noticeable was the amount of daylight that can be seen through the paper filter media of the mann filter, its lack of a bypass valve and its rather flimsy non return valve.

The RV8 filter media is superb the quality of the non return valve and the construction of filter cassette is excellent - the bypass valve is a good quality assembly and the retaining spring which holds all the components together is far better than the spring steel assembly of the Mann.

The only area where the Mann could be described as better is that the casing of the filter is a thicker steel.



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Andrew
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Post by Darkspeed »

Well there you have it, a Mann and an V8F filter disected.

The V8F filter media is excellent and in pulling the two filters apart the media is as tough as you would kind of expect from a glassfibre backed with steel media to be - and the paper of Mann filter is as fragile as you would expect.

My concern with the Mann paper filter is the visible light / holes present in the paper and to what extent they could be enlarged during use with pressure forcing particles through. I think this was highlighted as an issue in one of the other articles.

I would imagine that you are going to drop into one of two camps with regard the subject of filters.

Camp one. And this is where I am - My engine has had many thousands of pounds spent on it and for the value and the type of use I can justify spending a fair bit more on a decent filter which after ripping one to bits I am happy with the knledowge thats it substantially better than what I was using.

Camp two. Direct from the mouth of my mate who is running my spare engine :( which only cost me £75 :D "Ok so the Mann filter is only a £5 but its OEM quality and we've never had any issues in the past so what's the issue?"

At the end of the day you pays your money and you makes ya choice...

Sorry for some of the quality of the pictures it seems the Macro facility on the camera has either stopped working or is just p1ss poor to start with.

Oh and Dave if you want these parts for examples I am happy to box them up and ship them over to you.

Andrew
4.5L V8 Ginetta G27

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Post by topcatcustom »

I hope you remembered to put the tin opener back in the kitchen drawer before you got found out :lol:

So basically superior, only 1 thing missing- its a pity you can't wash it out and reuse like a K&N :lol: :lol:
TC

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Re: V8 FILTERS

Post by slice »

slice wrote:High Performance V8 Rover Engine Filters

http://v8filters.co.uk
Forum members will receive a 15% discount off the list price.
Not been on the forum for a while - i decided i would exhibit at the Exeter Kit Car Show this last weekend so i was involved in much planning.

the show was very well attended and i had plenty of interest, good discussions and some healthy sales...it was great exposure for my filter.

To continue that exposure and promote short term sales i have reduced the filter price to only £15 for the rest of the year. (p&p is £3.75 extra)

i dont have visa facilities just yet (but busy with the process) cheques would be fine

thanks

dave
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Post by topcatcustom »

Do you do paypal as well Dave?
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Post by slice »

topcatproduction wrote:Do you do paypal as well Dave?

Thanks TC,

yes I do have a paypal account - my son set it up for me some time ago but i've not used it yet so haven't a clue what to do!! :?

he will be helping me over the phone this evening hopefully (he's away at uni) so will keep you posted.

sorry for the inconvenience, be back to you again soon

cheers

dave
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