Read the bottom of this page.
http://www.nitrous.info/nitrous-n20--refills.htm
to an extent, you do not need a pump. As due to the pressure difference between a full, and empty bottle, the liquid will simply transfer, and pressure between the 2 will equalise.
Make sure the source bottle is hot, so the pressure is high. And the empty bottle cold, so pressure is low. That way you ensure the biggest fill.
Pumps are expensive, but can be sourced. I did have some info a while back, but Im damned if I can find it now.
Send me your email, and I will forward some email correspondance I had with a guy, who had made his own pumping system.
Google "haskel nitrous pump"
Ahh f**k it, I'll paste the emails here...
My initial query.
Hi. Im not looking a refill as such. More interested in where you got your pumping equipment for filling the bottle ??
Im in Northern Ireland, so I dont have easy access to fills. I can get the bottles from a local gas supplier, but have previously just relied on the pressure difference in the 2 bottles to fill the smaller one.
ive seen prices range from about £700 to over £1k for a pumping station.
The gas I actually got is the medical gas. BOC who supplied it said we didnt have any of the "industrial" stuff over here, and I couldnt find out what the industrial gas was even used for ??
Sometimes they were reluctant to give it out. Although I havent used it now for a few years, i still have the bottle at home ( and still paying rental on the bottle !! )
Myself and a couple of other guys are thinking about starting to use Nitrous again, which is why I'd like a pump first..
Thanks, Stevie
Hi Stevie
Ok well first off – as you might well know already, if you have “well trained” friends, you don’t need a pump in the first place. If they bring bottles which have been chilled first and have a little bit of gas left in which can be vented (so you have a cold low pressure bottle) you are going to get a good re-fill quickly. As the mother bottle is almost empty, warming it with a 500W halaogen lamp (no more heat risk than letting it stand outside in the summer) then again freeze the recipient bottle you can get almost all the gas out.
If you insist on going the pump method though, you need to have a look around on Ebay or the Net with google for “Haskel nitrous pump” – as a phrase, not three separate words with google and as three words on their own in Ebay. Expect to pay around £450 including carriage.
As you may already know, these pumps run from compressed air (unlubricated but with water vapour removed), a 2HP compressor is barely enough to drive them – they only plod along (make a hell of a racket) but the air consumption is phenomenal.
I am impressed that you managed to get BOC to supply you with the gas – may I ask what reason you gave for wanting it – they usually refuse point blank to supply for automotive use – so most folks use Linde – who charge around £170 for a refill +VAT + delivery.
If using the medical stuff I am taking it you are using an undipped “inverted” bottle – I’m not sure there would be a legit medical application for a dipped one! Non-dipped are more efficient but more unwiredly as I am sure you already know.
LOl – my biuggest question of all has to be “what made you stop using nitrous in the first place!”
Kind Regards
I tried for months to get nitrous, phoning everywhere. No joy. I even had big customers who use BOC products ask.
Would you believe I finally got it, just by walking in and asking them for it. Although at the time they did say I had to phone BOC head quarters and arrange having the industrial gas sent over.
I didnt do this...
There wasnt a problem for about 8-9 months, then one guy ( who wheels the empty bottles about ) said a memo had been sent round, stating the gas was not to be supplied for automotive use. Obviosuly he had noticed this, but the guy at the counter had not.
Thats quite a few years ago, but I still have the big blue bottle here ( dipped ? undipped ?? My bottle is about 5ft tall, 9-10inch in diameter ), not huge though. Using the heat/cold fill, we only usually got about 3 x 10lb fills from it. Sometimes a bit more. I made a tight fitting enclosure for the big bottle, and used a hairdryer. It took about 60mins or so to get the big bottle nice and warm, but usually gave a good fill in one go. A lot of hassle though Refill from BOC was about £70.
How many lbs does the Linde bottle hold ? Ive no idea if there are any Linde suppliers over here, but I can check. There are a couple of guys selling nitrous over here now, so there must be a supplier.
The kit was a dry kit on a friends car, as there was no tuning stuff available for it, so we gave Nitrous a go. It was my first ausing it. I fitted a couple of kits after that, but other stuff happened, and cars were sold.
After he sold the car we never used it again. I prefer turbochargers ( although my current car is supercharged ). The power is there all the time, not on a temproary basis..
Although I am now tempted to have a go again with nos, as my hunger for power is as greedy as ever. I have enough power to be happy on the road. A bit more for the strip would be nice though.
If I cant get and pump my own gas, I wont be using it though.
I'll take a look on ebay, to see what I find. I do have a compressor, not sure of HP, but its the biggest single phase one I could get, so prob is about 2HP.
Thanks, Stevie
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Ok, you REALLY need to know the difference between dipped and undipped bottles. A 5’ bottle 9-10 inches in diameter should hold about SEVEN ten pound refills – not three or four.
The dipped bottles have a tube which runs from the valve head, down to the base of the bottle – so when you turn on the valve at the top, LIQUID nitrous is available, if the bottle is dipped it will have a white stripe painted down the outside of the bottle. If the bottle is undipped, there will be no stripe and the bottle MUST be inverted (stood on its head) in order to get liquid nitrous out. If you do not do this, you will simply pressurize your bottles with gas (rather than fill them with liquid) most of the time.
When the cylinder is between half full and full, you need only chill the bottle down to get pretty much a full refill. If you were having to heat the mother bottle to begin with, then you were using an undipped bottle “right way up” or a dipped bottle on its head. Hence getting less than 50% of the gas out.
£70 refill is very good – double that (and add more) for Linde, VERY frustrating when you know that BOC do it so much cheaper but will not supply. I have been trying to think of an alternative use for Nitrous that I can tell BOC I need it for. It does have uses for Cryo research but not many cryo research labs operate from a terraced house J
As for Linde, they are the biggest alternative to BOC in England I think, would be surprised if the same not true in Ireland. Google for them and see what you find. If no joy, you may have another company over there who might be found under “compressed gasses” in the telephone book.
If the compressor is the largest single phase you can get, it should be fine, if not, it just means the pump runs slower that it should and/or you need a LARGE reservoir tank. As I say though, if you can chill the bottle first you don’t really need the pump- I have been doing without a pump for three years – and only bought one because many of the lads who turn up for a fill do so with a warm bottle that is half full. Unless you have a pump you are a bit buggered at that point.
I have looked at dry kits but almost all of the nitrous “horror stories” are from folks on dry kits with American solenoids. I prefer the wet kit and use a pulsoid – UK company makes them, not cheap but superb quality and they don’t leak (lifetime G.tee on them too)
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we did use the big bottle upside down, but honestly cant say if its dipped or not. I assume being a medical bottle, there would be no dip tube inside, as they want gas from it, not liquid.
The kit we used was a NOS kit sourced from real steel. Dry just because it was easy.
I wouldnt use a dry kit on any car that was going to make power.
To be honest I dont like the look of some of the UK kits, with their plastic piping, but I guess they work fine.
Actually got the new pricing from BOC a week or 2 ago.Nitros oxide size G is £71.69 + vat They claim 9m3 capacity. When i got the bottle at first they said it was the biggest they do.
I see they now list an 18m3 bottle for £125 + vat.
Rental on the G is about £4 per month.
Thanks again for your help...
Stevie
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I have to agree with you on the plastic piping, it does look pretty tacky – thing is though it works a damn site better than the braided hose – it flows enough liquid for about 300bhp BUT is not such a wide bore that the liquid turns into gas – you don’t need a purke kit for instance with nylon line unless you wish to pose with it.
I have tried braided, copper and nylon. My first choice is Nylon, copper I use in my car at the moment due to VERY high heat soak and braided I would only used for a show car – which mine is not. Even then, I would actually use nylon line for performance and then put a “braided sleeve” over the top to keep it looking nice.
Interestingly enough there have been a few test carried out between both the nylon – v braided and the UK – v – US kits – including either top gear or 5th gear. Each time the UK product gets the gong. Main problem with US kits is they all use heavy solenoids which simply do not like being pulsed – you CAN do it, but then the seals begin to fail – and then you have a leaning out. In fairness they kind of acknowledge this insofar as most US kits – HolleyNOS, Zex etc sell “solenoid seal replacement kits”.
The 18m3 bottle sound very much like a 70 litre job (70l of liquid) and ideally the one you want – smaller ones will waste more gas pro-rata when you hand them back – always some residual gas left even if you use a pump - unless you leave it on for HOURS and then you have accelerated wear of the pump seals
