Current State of Liquid LPG Injection

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davehoos
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Post by davehoos »

http://lpgaustralia.com.au/index.php?op ... &Itemid=54
Your post seems to have different bit of different things. Certainly we are not talking about LPG addition to diesel injection here (either as gas or liquid).
a local company uses liquid injection of LPG into the air intake on diesel engines.its a small company here with big customers in asia.
http://www.gastek.com.au

vapour injection is very common with assisted power diesel/petrol engines i think thats what you think im refer to however the small vapouriser similar to a electric vapour injection systems tends to dump liquid in on high demand.you can use these with other types of engines.

international web sites i read quote small % of extra LPG added to the diesel and its mostly to reduce black smoke.a quick read of this jazzed up web page quotes 30%-but some of my older customers that had development installs used over 50%.
a citron van sold in australia uses 50% lpg.

large engine manufacturers produce electronic controlled CNG/LPG engines.local mines and some suburbs have these as demand generators and they can be very big.busses are common with gas-diesel.old bulldozers had sparkplugs,carby and direct diesel injection-im guessing low compression.these will run on kero vapourised oil and wood or diesel.
LPG. I assume you have read the Vialle web pages.
no i hadnt as its not australian site and im not that fused with the vialle on the falcon.. im told they are linked to boral here and they provide OEM and aftermarket systems and have been involved with australian government to run trucks on coal etc etc etc.
the picture on the site looks very similar i assume this may be related to the last page of
http://www.lpgli.com/

chicken shed heating gas here is of better quality----yes i can refill my car from the farm.a local company here in called Kleenheat.

interetsing reading.
http://lpgaustralia.com.au/index.php?op ... &Itemid=54

http://www.orbeng.com.au/tp/techpub.htm

the origins of orbital was sarich they had to design fuel systems to make it work these work close with CSIRO the hope was these would work with hydrogen etc when i was at school.
Orbital Australia Limited - licence for the Australian OEM market
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_engine


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badger
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Post by badger »

I've had various conversations with my LPG supplier with respect to British Standards and the level of "heavy-ends" present within Autogas, during which the supplier (a major player in the UK Propane industry) assures me that the stuff they tank to your house for heating, the stuff they sell on a forecourt as Autogas and the stuff they fill the red cylinders with is all the same, to the same BS number! In the UK there is no mixing of Butane with Propane for Autogas as they do on the continent and no addition of any other product. It is simply Propane, nothing else.
Badger.
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davehoos
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Post by davehoos »

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor. ... 23001E6B3A

I just read this today..i get so anoyed when companies get our tax money so they can reinvent the wheel.

big gas plants being built locally-and just not enough cars on the road to use it.love it when you read about electric cars are the way of the future.[/url]
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stevieturbo
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Post by stevieturbo »

In the short term, yes LPG is a very viable route to take. But only because of the lower taxation.
The government dont give a damn about how dirty or clean any fuel is. If enough people start using it, they will tax the shite out of it.

So whilst LPG remains a minority, taxation may remain cheaper.

E85 is another example. A cleaner renewable fuel, and the government offered no support whatsoever, so garages that did sell it are now withdrawing it.
If they had been serious about pushing cleaner renewable fuels, they would have made it cheaper.

But in the long term, electric is the future. It's just how to actually power the electric vehicle is the issue. Batteries are absolutely crap as a storage. So range etc is crap.

If I could own an electric van that had a range of say 3-400 miles per charge, I'd have one tomorrow.
Anything to prevent having so much money extorted from me by the government !
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

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ChrisJC
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Post by ChrisJC »

stevieturbo wrote: But in the long term, electric is the future.
Not sure about that.

If we switched to electric overnight, I wonder how many new power stations we'd need. And I wonder if the NIMBY brigade would allow them to be built........

Chris.
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stevieturbo
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Post by stevieturbo »

ChrisJC wrote:
stevieturbo wrote: But in the long term, electric is the future.
Not sure about that.

If we switched to electric overnight, I wonder how many new power stations we'd need. And I wonder if the NIMBY brigade would allow them to be built........

Chris.
I want an electric car with good performance ( well, a small van for work ), range of say 300 miles on a single charge, and a wind turbine to charge it at my house !!!

It would also need some form of on board backup to charge in the event of running done.

Free motoring !! but most importantly, the government wouldnt be getting a penny !
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

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ChrisJC
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Post by ChrisJC »

Hmm, assume 300miles @ 50 mpg = 6 gallons = 25 litres of petrol. That amount of petrol contains 875MegaJoules of energy. You only use 1/3 of it to usefully move your car, so assume 290MegaJoules for 300 miles.

Lets say you do that once a week, your wind turbine needs to generate 290MegaJoules in 1 week. 1 week is 604800 seconds, so you need to generate 500Watts 24/7.

You might get away with it, but not with something from B&Q I suspect.....

Chris.
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Series IIA 4.6 V8
R/R P38 4.6 V8
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stevieturbo
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Post by stevieturbo »

ChrisJC wrote:Hmm, assume 300miles @ 50 mpg = 6 gallons = 25 litres of petrol. That amount of petrol contains 875MegaJoules of energy. You only use 1/3 of it to usefully move your car, so assume 290MegaJoules for 300 miles.

Lets say you do that once a week, your wind turbine needs to generate 290MegaJoules in 1 week. 1 week is 604800 seconds, so you need to generate 500Watts 24/7.

You might get away with it, but not with something from B&Q I suspect.....

Chris.
Think BIG, think long term. I'm talking about a proper wind turbine 10-15kw or thereabouts that would supply a fair bit for the house too.


If I was shopping in B&Q, I'd sooner buy a sail for my car ;)
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

jan_rrc39v8
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Post by jan_rrc39v8 »

to get back on topic here is my Vialle-LPi experience:
i used to own a 1997 Volvo 940 low pressure turbo with a Vialle LPi kit.(stock 135HP)
It was a piggyback system that used white Siemens injectors that were sized for 50HP each. This meant i was able to chip the stock LH2.4 petrol system and bump up the boostpressure resulting in approx 200HP and the LPG system matched the LPG output , i estimate the LPG power at about 190hp@ about 14psi boost. If only there was a possibility to optimise the ignition for each fuel i would have managed to squeeze out even more power on LPG.

Then i installed a Ford cosworth T3 turbo and 3"exh system in order to bump up the power even more. To do this i also had to use larger petrol injectors and matching larger LPi injectors. The LPi injectors were the brown Siemens , calibrated to flow LPG for 85hp. (expensive!)
I used matching petrol injectors, this was necessary because of the piggyback setup. If the petrol and LPi injectors were not equally matched (power wise) it would result in relearning of the ECU after each fuel switch over.

The LPi system had 2 weak points:
- the install of the injectors was mechanically weak (heavy injectors dangling of the shaking manifold causing vacume leaks when the system aged)
- earlier in-tank pressure pumps have tendency to fail when the tank was run dry on a regular basis. A modified pump later solved this problem.

it's a great system for boosted application because the LPG-fuelpressure in the commonrail is about 5bar.
DD: RRC 3.9efi lpg, project: bmw e9 CS with 3.5L turbo + MS&S

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