TRS TA Performance Cylinder heads

General Chat About Exhaust, Cylinder Heads, Fuel Systems And Intake

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mgbloke
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Post by mgbloke »

This is the cover plate. It is re usable.
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Template on its way.
cheers
mark



Coops
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Post by Coops »

cheers mark,
I gather you still use the two end rubbers and clamp plates with this alloy gasket/baffle?
Regards Tony C (COOPS)
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MS2 V3.57 Ecu mapable efi and wasted spark ignition.
Procharger D1SC supercharger and Cossie RS500 Intercooler @ 14psi of Boost. 416 RWHP, (boost leak)
Forged 4.8 V8 kitted out with the dogs Cajones of parts. :D
Sponsored by: www.v8performanceparts.co.uk, www.interpart.biz, www.caprisport.com & www.baileyperformance.co.uk

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Blown v8
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Post by Blown v8 »

Coops wrote:cheers mark,
I gather you still use the two end rubbers and clamp plates with this alloy gasket/baffle?
Yes,but I found I had to use sealer as well

mgbloke
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Post by mgbloke »

yes I had to use sealer all round.

Coops
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Post by Coops »

Thanks again mate
Regards Tony C (COOPS)
Image
MS2 V3.57 Ecu mapable efi and wasted spark ignition.
Procharger D1SC supercharger and Cossie RS500 Intercooler @ 14psi of Boost. 416 RWHP, (boost leak)
Forged 4.8 V8 kitted out with the dogs Cajones of parts. :D
Sponsored by: www.v8performanceparts.co.uk, www.interpart.biz, www.caprisport.com & www.baileyperformance.co.uk

Coops
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Post by Coops »

ordered 2mm ally but now its here it looks a little to thick and will need to be rolled in a set of rollers,
Is 2mm correct???
I'm looking at ordering some 1.2mm ally sheet to make this gasket or is that to thin??
Regards Tony C (COOPS)
Image
MS2 V3.57 Ecu mapable efi and wasted spark ignition.
Procharger D1SC supercharger and Cossie RS500 Intercooler @ 14psi of Boost. 416 RWHP, (boost leak)
Forged 4.8 V8 kitted out with the dogs Cajones of parts. :D
Sponsored by: www.v8performanceparts.co.uk, www.interpart.biz, www.caprisport.com & www.baileyperformance.co.uk

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Darkspeed
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Post by Darkspeed »

Depends on what the finished state of the alloy is - Most these days is finished 1/2 hard so it's bloody stiff fully hard would be like a sheet of steel.

Best bet is to anneal it to a fully soft state and you will be able to form it over a tube very easily.

All you need to anneal it is some soap and a blow lamp - rub the soap all over the sheet - apply heat all over evenly until the soap turns dark brown and then let it cool.

Having said that 2mm is very thick - see what it's like to work with once annealed.

Have a try on a small test piece first to get the hang of it.
4.5L V8 Ginetta G27

mgbloke
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Post by mgbloke »

I had to get mine rolled to shape as it was too stiff to bend by hand. Might be slightly thinner than 2mm cant check mine now as it is fitted again.

Coops
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Post by Coops »

Have ordered some 1.5 and 1.2mm ally sheet now
Regards Tony C (COOPS)
Image
MS2 V3.57 Ecu mapable efi and wasted spark ignition.
Procharger D1SC supercharger and Cossie RS500 Intercooler @ 14psi of Boost. 416 RWHP, (boost leak)
Forged 4.8 V8 kitted out with the dogs Cajones of parts. :D
Sponsored by: www.v8performanceparts.co.uk, www.interpart.biz, www.caprisport.com & www.baileyperformance.co.uk

Daniel Jones
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Post by Daniel Jones »

I thought I'd share some numbers for a set of TA Rover heads I had on a flow bench recently. The heads were first flowed in unported form and then ported by Bob Stiegemeier of Stiegemeier Porting Service (http://stiegemeier.com/) in St. Charles, Missouri USA. In addition to the heads, I dropped off a Willpower single plane intake manifold, exhaust header flange, block and assorted gaskets for mock up purposes. I also dropped off an unported Rover 4.6L cylinder head for comparison purposes. This set of heads started as an assembled unported set from TA Performance with 1.94" diameter intake and 1.6" diameter exhaust valves and an upgraded spring package. We started the evaluation by removing a pair of valves from one cylinder. Bob examined the ports, chamber shrouding, seat margins and valve angles and asked me some questions about the engine the heads will be going on (cross-bolted Rover 4.2L with Carrillo rods, Wiseco forged pistons for a street driven Triumph TR8). He also asked if I was going to run EFI (yes) or a carb, suggesting you can get away with larger ports with EFI. Since the heads were assembled, we decided the best bang-for-the buck would be to work around the existing valve job. Looking at the intake ports, Bob noted the as cast port size was plenty large for my application and thought they should go to 250 CFM easily with only minor work. He also threaded a spark plug into the head and indicated he would do a little chamber work around the plugs and polish the chambers. Bob used to do development work on NASCAR intake manifolds and mentioned getting the port floor of the intake manifold to work with cylinder head port floor was especially critical. Bob pulled out some exhaust port templates and asked about the headers I planned to run (1 5/8" primary TR8 tri-ys). Bob said the shape of the exhaust ports looked good but would need to be made wider. I'd previously contacted the developer of the heads, Mike Tomaszewski of TA Performance, and he had the following to say on porting the TA Rover heads:

"On the exhaust have him start by opening up the exhaust outlet, make the port wider, The port will respond by doing this. Then have him remove very little to none on the back side of the exhaust bowl. Just blend the machined throat area into the back side. He should end up with a slight bump even, on the back side. Blend the rest of the bowl how he sees fit."

The heads were tested at a 28" pressure drop on a SuperFlow 600 flow bench. Intake ports were flowed with a clayed radius around the intake port. No pipe was used on the exhaust except for one test with the stock 4.6L Rover head (noted below). Flow is in cubic feet per minute (CFM) and lift is in inches. Intake valve diameter is 1.94" and exhaust diameter is 1.6". Note that the heads were purchased assembled and Bob worked around the existing valve job. Heads were flowed unported, ported and ported with a 30 degree back cut on the intake valves. Columns are as follow:

1 = out of box intake ports
2 = ported intake, no back cut on intake valves
3 = ported intake, 30 degree back cut on intake valves
4 = out-of-box exhaust ports, no pipe stub
5 = ported exhaust, no back cut on exhaust valves, no pipe stub

Code: Select all

 Valve  1      2      3      4      5
 Lift   1.94   1.94   1.94   1.60   1.60
 (Inch) CFM    CFM    CFM    CFM    CFM
 0.100   67.7   76.8   78.3   47.9   63.8
 0.200  105.4  120.4  129.4   70.2  108.5
 0.300  143.0  173.1  185.1  102.1  146.7
 0.350  164.0  198.7  206.2  114.9  -----
 0.400  185.1  224.2  225.8  126.0  177.0
 0.500  220.9  255.9  251.3  137.2  189.8
 0.600  225.8  -----  252.8  140.4  199.4
Bob noted the flow for the ported intake with back-cut valves was for the first one he did. He got closer to 260 CFM peak on subsequent valves. The exhaust port was sized for a 1 5/8" OD header primary (the larger of the two available tri-y headers for the Triumph TR8). For reference, here's what my ported 1964 Buick 300 cylinder heads flowed with 1.775" intake and 1.5" exhaust valves:

Code: Select all

 Ported 1964 Buick 300 cylinder head
 Lift 1.775" 1.5"
 Inch   CFM  CFM
 0.100   66   47
 0.200  129  104
 0.300  174  130
 0.350  187  139
 0.400  191  146
 0.500  196  152
 0.600  200  153
I had also previously flowed a stock Buick 300 head with 1.625" intake and 1.312" exhaust valves at 154 CFM intake and 116 CFM exhaust. The unported Rover 4.6L head flowed:

Code: Select all

  Unported Rover 4.6L cylinder head
  Lift   1.575" 1.350"
  Inch     CFM    CFM
  0.100   60.2   57.4
  0.200  105.4   92.5
  0.300  132.4  103.7
  0.350  135.5  106.9
  0.400  135.5  106.9  (114.8 with pipe stub)
With minor port work, the ported TA Rover heads flow nearly double the stock Rover 4.6L heads. Bob clearanced the chambers to around 42cc then milled them 0.020" to get them to 37cc. He also installed thin wall bronze sleeves in the pushrod holes. The intake valves had sharp edges around the keepers and damaged some of the valve stem seals during dis-assembly so he smoothed the sharp edges and installed new seals. The intake valves (appear to be SI brand) were out of round so Bob cut them to get them round. The exhaust (Ferrea) were round and needed no adjustment. The intake manifold had a low spot on one of the flanges that he welded up and milled back down. The intake and heads were then port matched on the block. He tested the springs with and without the inner springs. With the inners in place, they are 170 lbs on the seat and 400 lbs @ 0.550" lift. With the inners removed, they are 120 lbs on the seat and 280 lbs @ 0.550". Bob said he can adjust the seat pressure with offset keepers once I decided on the cam. Though I'm considering a hydraulic roller, Bob would really like to see me run a solid flat tappet cam with EDM lifters and beehive springs and spin the engine to 8000 RPM. Given the intake port size, he thought I'd want to run a narrower lobe separation angle than the intake valve diameter (to cubic inches ratio) might suggest, along with a bunch of initial timing and a short advance curve. He also suggested 11:1 compression and thought EFI would work better than a carb with the large intake ports. Given the very strong exhaust port, he thought a single pattern cam would be the way to go. He mentioned that while the exhaust would flow even more with a pipe stub, adding a full length header usually gets it back to what the naked exhaust port flows so he likes to flow them without a pipe stub. Bob was really jazzed about the TA heads and lightweight Rover V8. Bob said he could do better on the intake side starting with a bare set of heads (not working around the existing valve job) and noted there was room on the cylinder head to raise the roof a 1/2" and thought that raising the roof, filling the floor and use a larger intake valve, he could get over 320 CFM out of the intake ports.

Dan Jones

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Post by unstable load »

Very thorough work and reporting, it's great to have guys like that around!
Cheers,
John

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Post by Coops »

Mark.
when you checked for clearances did you need to end up getting reliefs cut into the piston crowns?
I'm going to be using a crower 50305 mechanical cam, and wondered where the reliefs come out on the crowns using the TA Heads in relation to if using a rover head.
Regards Tony C (COOPS)
Image
MS2 V3.57 Ecu mapable efi and wasted spark ignition.
Procharger D1SC supercharger and Cossie RS500 Intercooler @ 14psi of Boost. 416 RWHP, (boost leak)
Forged 4.8 V8 kitted out with the dogs Cajones of parts. :D
Sponsored by: www.v8performanceparts.co.uk, www.interpart.biz, www.caprisport.com & www.baileyperformance.co.uk

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Blown v8
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Post by Blown v8 »

This is how mine looked, (used an old piston)
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Post by Coops »

blimey quite difference then
Regards Tony C (COOPS)
Image
MS2 V3.57 Ecu mapable efi and wasted spark ignition.
Procharger D1SC supercharger and Cossie RS500 Intercooler @ 14psi of Boost. 416 RWHP, (boost leak)
Forged 4.8 V8 kitted out with the dogs Cajones of parts. :D
Sponsored by: www.v8performanceparts.co.uk, www.interpart.biz, www.caprisport.com & www.baileyperformance.co.uk

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Blown v8
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Post by Blown v8 »

Yep,you've really got to watch the overlap !

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