Oil pump flow rate

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Twinturbotr7
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Oil pump flow rate

Post by Twinturbotr7 »

Hi all I’m thinking of using a water to oil, oil cooler due to
Not having anywhere to mount a conventional cooler , the literature with the water to oil coolers want to know the flow rate in litres per minute,so I can work out what model to buy , so my question is what is the oil pump flow rate in LPM of a serpentine engine ???
Thanks Nick



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Re: Oil pump flow rate

Post by ChrisJC »

I have never seen that figure quoted anywhere! Always just pressure.

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Re: Oil pump flow rate

Post by unstable load »

I would think the main pump would most likely not be up to the task of running an oil/air intercooler.
I'd go with an external crank driven pump if I were you.

Where are you going to store the additional oil that you will need to fill all that extra plumbing?
I think your standard sump won't be up to task for that.
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Re: Oil pump flow rate

Post by SuperV8 »

unstable load wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:31 am
I would think the main pump would most likely not be up to the task of running an oil/air intercooler.
I'd go with an external crank driven pump if I were you.

Where are you going to store the additional oil that you will need to fill all that extra plumbing?
I think your standard sump won't be up to task for that.
The serpentine oil pump is often connected to an oil to air cooler - so why would it not be up to an oil to water cooler?
so my question is what is the oil pump flow rate in LPM of a serpentine engine ???
The flow rate will vary with engine RPM and resistance to flow - unless they are asking for maximum flow?
I don't know what the Rover V8 pump flows, do any of the american V8's with a similar GEROTOR pumps have published flow curves?

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Re: Oil pump flow rate

Post by fresseler »

In the past I did a flow calculation for a standard RV8 oil pump. From what I remember it is about 6cc every full 360 oil pump rotation. Cavitation becomes an issue with the standard oil passages at +- 2950 rpm oil pump or +- 5900 crank rpm.
The cavitation issue can be improved with small alterations in the oil pump base and front cover. This data is only valid for the old style front cover.
I need to check the paperwork if I can find it!
Frank

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Re: Oil pump flow rate

Post by SuperV8 »

From here: http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2014/07 ... oublesome/

"GM uses a number of different pumps on its LS engines. There’s the “standard” pump that’s used on a wide variety of LS engine applications, a high flow pump for engines with cylinder deactivation and/or Variable Valve Timing (VVT), a high flow pump for certain truck applications, and a special race only pump. A Gen III front mounted standard pump flows 4.1 gallons per minute (gpm) at 1,000 RPM, while a higher output Gen IV front mounted pump flows 5.5 gpm at 1,000 RPM. By comparison, a typical small block Chevy cam/distributor driven standard oil pump flows about 3.1 gpm at 1,000 RPM."


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Re: Oil pump flow rate

Post by SuperV8 »

fresseler wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:29 am
In the past I did a flow calculation for a standard RV8 oil pump. From what I remember it is about 6cc every full 360 oil pump rotation. Cavitation becomes an issue with the standard oil passages at +- 2950 rpm oil pump or +- 5900 crank rpm.
The cavitation issue can be improved with small alterations in the oil pump base and front cover. This data is only valid for the old style front cover.
I need to check the paperwork if I can find it!
Frank
6cc per pump rotation - so 12cc per engine rev,
=12000cc per 1000rpm which = 3.17us gal per 1000rpm which for me matches up quite well with LS Chevy pump flow I posted previously.

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Re: Oil pump flow rate

Post by Twinturbotr7 »

Thanks for the replys this is a link to to the oil cooler I'm thinking of using your will see the question being asked about the size hence my question I assume yes asking the question regarding maximum flow but if you guys would mind having a look and give me your opinion

http://laminovapro.com/laminova-oil-cooler-information/

Thanks Nick

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Re: Oil pump flow rate

Post by SuperV8 »

If you assume the crank driven oil pump is similar to the LS pump then 4gpm = approx 15lpm at 1000rpm - at 5500rpm this is 82lpm (it won't be a straight line but this is all we have and who knows if some if this bleeds of down the bypass?)
Either way I think your looking at the biggest one in my opinion, which is normally the case with cooling - just fit the biggest you can fit in.

Why are you fitting an oil cooler? Are you getting cooling issues? What oil temps are you seeing?
Obviously your cooling system would have to deal with more cooling load - does it have more cooling capacity?

My own car (Dax rush supercharged 4.6) I normally see oil around 90 - 100C upto 110 on a hot day in traffic, without an oil cooler, and this temp is fine for my oil.

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Re: Oil pump flow rate

Post by Twinturbotr7 »

SuperV8 wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:27 am
If you assume the crank driven oil pump is similar to the LS pump then 4gpm = approx 15lpm at 1000rpm - at 5500rpm this is 82lpm (it won't be a straight line but this is all we have and who knows if some if this bleeds of down the bypass?)
Either way I think your looking at the biggest one in my opinion, which is normally the case with cooling - just fit the biggest you can fit in.

Why are you fitting an oil cooler? Are you getting cooling issues? What oil temps are you seeing?
Obviously your cooling system would have to deal with more cooling load - does it have more cooling capacity?

My own car (Dax rush supercharged 4.6) I normally see oil around 90 - 100C upto 110 on a hot day in traffic, without an oil cooler, and this temp is fine for my oil.

Tom.

Hi tom doing a twin turbo 3.9 in a tr7 , and assumed that I would need an oil cooler ??I've heard twin turbos in a tr7 can get very hot so wanted to start with the best cooling system I can , I've got a big ally rad with a shrouded spal fan , I'm going to fit big winged sump and thought a oil cooler wouldn't hurt either , the reason behind the water to oil cooler was space, I've got 2 big intetcoolers covering 98% of the rad and these not much space in front of the intetcoolers, and the opening at the front of a tr7 is small ,having the intetcoolers in front of the rad is not going to help cooling much and wack a oil cooler infront of them it's going to be worse hence my thoughts on water to oil coolers , I know there will be trade off the water to oil coolers in that it will increase the temperature of the coolant but if I block my intetcoolers with a oil cooler it will hurt boot temp and hurt coolent temperature prob more than the extra bit heat the water to oil cooler will put back into the coolent hope this makes sense
Nick

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Re: Oil pump flow rate

Post by unstable load »

SuperV8 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:23 am
The serpentine oil pump is often connected to an oil to air cooler - so why would it not be up to an oil to water cooler?
Because the engine oil cooler is set up to cool the oil using the passing ambient airflow, not for cooling a large volume of heated air.
The amount of oil you will need to move, and the volume of oil needed to effect that level of temeprature change will probably overwhelm the volumetric flow of the oil pump. Not to mention the fact that the heat exchanged from cooling down the charge would add to your engine's oil temperature, meaning you will need additional cooling to get your engine oil down to temperature.

I don't know the associated maths, but I am sure someone who is more up to speed would be able to generate the required numbers for you.
Cheers,
John

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Re: Oil pump flow rate

Post by DEVONMAN »

Will the proposed turbos be water cooled ? If so there will be a certain amount of heat exchanged between oil and coolant. I Use water cooled turbos in my car which has a very compact under bonnet space and keeping coolant temp down is the main battle where as the oil temp is acceptable using a small oil cooler. In my case, putting more heat into the coolant would not be good.
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Twinturbotr7
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Re: Oil pump flow rate

Post by Twinturbotr7 »

DEVONMAN wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:47 am
Will the proposed turbos be water cooled ? If so there will be a certain amount of heat exchanged between oil and coolant. I Use water cooled turbos in my car which has a very compact under bonnet space and keeping coolant temp down is the main battle where as the oil temp is acceptable using a small oil cooler. In my case, putting more heat into the coolant would not be good.
AustinDevons-38.jpg

Hi there I’m. afraid I don’t have water cooled turbos ,
I can’t fit a conventional air to oil cooler as it will block the whole intercooler and the intercooler blocks the rad , I’ve got a couple of other places I could fit air to oil cooler but it won’t see much air , I’m thinking it fitting a big wing sump that should help a bit , maybe I should just
Try it without the oil cooler and see how hot it gets ????

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