4.6 Build.. Spec ideas?

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B33fy
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Post by B33fy »

Nothing wrong with the standard regulator coops, just wanted a bit of flexibility on the fuel pressure. Yep 440's are going to cause low speed running issues, impulse buy and all that.. Any clues on suitable injectors? Looking at some of the web based calculators 250-300cc is about the ballpark?



Coops
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Post by Coops »

shouldn't need flexability mate with the fuel pressure,
decent pump, standard pressure reg, and the correct size injectors and mapped correctly should be fine ,
I ran a rising rate reg for years as read that's the way to go as can wind pressure up a bit to help fueling etc as you demand more from engine etc, oh how wrong I was,
after getting to know Dale at Bailey Performance etc he pointed me the right direction by ditching the reg and get a standard rover one again, correct injectors and mapped correctly it ran a 1000% better

I use a bosch 044 fuel pump on mine,
Regards Tony C (COOPS)
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DaveEFI
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Post by DaveEFI »

A rising rate one is only a cludge that may help where you can't re-map. It did improve my flapper system slightly. But with a mappable after market unit, there's not much it could possibly do that mapping can't.
However most after market ECUs do expect you to have the fuel pressure 'fixed' - ie only vacuum compensated - and the correct size injectors. Software can't fix the wrong hardware.
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B33fy
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Post by B33fy »

440's going back, too much messing about with 4 cylinder turbo lumps which run huge injectors compared with the V8. Going to start with 26lb injectors (275cc) and go from there. I understand the ain't broke why fix it approach on the regulator. I was going with an adjustable one with the aim to run at three bar as it seems this is the default pressure for the injectors.

I'll leave it to the mapper to sort, tweak or advise any changes.

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Post by DaveEFI »

You can get adjustable ones which aren't rising rate. The snag with most of these is they don't hold fuel rail pressure with the engine stopped as well as a standard one.

Injector flow rate is given at a certain pressure. If you alter that pressure, you'll also need to alter the flow rate used in initial calculations for the mapping. An injector flow rate site will usually have a calculator to do this for you.
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minorv8
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Post by minorv8 »

I have Cooper S injectors from a R50 (?) Engine. Only done a few miles and the removed due tpWorks Cooper package. I bought 2 sets in case I eventually would need them. They are around 310 cc, ans std Cooper S being a 170 something hp car two sets should provide 350 + hp. They are however shorter and need a spacer to fit in Rover manifold.

I had a set of Yella Terras and I am 99 % sure that the Merlin end pedestals did not fit.

Beehive springs provide additional clearance if needed.

B33fy
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Post by B33fy »

minorv8 wrote:I have Cooper S injectors from a R50 (?) Engine. Only done a few miles and the removed due tpWorks Cooper package. I bought 2 sets in case I eventually would need them. They are around 310 cc, ans std Cooper S being a 170 something hp car two sets should provide 350 + hp. They are however shorter and need a spacer to fit in Rover manifold.

I had a set of Yella Terras and I am 99 % sure that the Merlin end pedestals did not fit.

Beehive springs provide additional clearance if needed.
Thanks for this Minor, really helpful. I'll hopefully try the TA's for size, if not just get standard gear for now. I swapped the gearbox because it was noisy, and the replacement was worse, I've a third one but decided on a rebuilt R380 as I didn't want to take another chance. My diff is all done now with a Quaife ATB and 3.14 ratio so should help the gearing a little. Will have three LT77's available as a job lot soon.

The block has been decked, the serial numbers gone, though I'll check the height and see if it's enough. Picked up the measuring equipment Friday so hopefully will get a chance this afternoon to look at it.

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Post by stevieturbo »

B33fy wrote:440's going back, too much messing about with 4 cylinder turbo lumps which run huge injectors compared with the V8. Going to start with 26lb injectors (275cc) and go from there. I understand the ain't broke why fix it approach on the regulator. I was going with an adjustable one with the aim to run at three bar as it seems this is the default pressure for the injectors.

I'll leave it to the mapper to sort, tweak or advise any changes.
Complete and utter nonsense that 440's will present a problem. I ran them for years with zero issue. And when I changed, I ran larger 570's, which were then sold on to another forum member who used them without issue.
Only sold as I switched from a RV8 to LS.

And both of those were batch fire, not even sequential.

If you cannot get a small injector like a 440 to work...then the problem lies elsewhere, not because of the size of the injector.
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

B33fy
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Post by B33fy »

stevieturbo wrote:
B33fy wrote:440's going back, too much messing about with 4 cylinder turbo lumps which run huge injectors compared with the V8. Going to start with 26lb injectors (275cc) and go from there. I understand the ain't broke why fix it approach on the regulator. I was going with an adjustable one with the aim to run at three bar as it seems this is the default pressure for the injectors.

I'll leave it to the mapper to sort, tweak or advise any changes.
Complete and utter nonsense that 440's will present a problem. I ran them for years with zero issue. And when I changed, I ran larger 570's, which were then sold on to another forum member who used them without issue.
Only sold as I switched from a RV8 to LS.

And both of those were batch fire, not even sequential

If you cannot get a small injector like a 440 to work...then the problem lies elsewhere, not because of the size of the injector.
I'm sort of with you on this Steve, previous experience with 440's in the turbo world of scoobies says they aren't that big. Though they seem pretty big in the V8 world according to the web based calculators which are pretty conservative imo. Coops and Bailey performance and my techie overseeing the build, suggested they may be a touch too big causing low speed idle problems.

The 26lb injectors are an upgrade for a N/A 5.7 90's corvette so logic says they should be a good starting point. I can always change them if needed it's no big deal. I just want to cover all bases and get my car running properly for once and for all.

stevieturbo
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Post by stevieturbo »

B33fy wrote:
stevieturbo wrote:
B33fy wrote:440's going back, too much messing about with 4 cylinder turbo lumps which run huge injectors compared with the V8. Going to start with 26lb injectors (275cc) and go from there. I understand the ain't broke why fix it approach on the regulator. I was going with an adjustable one with the aim to run at three bar as it seems this is the default pressure for the injectors.

I'll leave it to the mapper to sort, tweak or advise any changes.
Complete and utter nonsense that 440's will present a problem. I ran them for years with zero issue. And when I changed, I ran larger 570's, which were then sold on to another forum member who used them without issue.
Only sold as I switched from a RV8 to LS.

And both of those were batch fire, not even sequential

If you cannot get a small injector like a 440 to work...then the problem lies elsewhere, not because of the size of the injector.
I'm sort of with you on this Steve, previous experience with 440's in the turbo world of scoobies says they aren't that big. Though they seem pretty big in the V8 world according to the web based calculators which are pretty conservative imo. Coops and Bailey performance and my techie overseeing the build, suggested they may be a touch too big causing low speed idle problems.

The 26lb injectors are an upgrade for a N/A 5.7 90's corvette so logic says they should be a good starting point. I can always change them if needed it's no big deal. I just want to cover all bases and get my car running properly for once and for all.
440's are not big at all these days.

I run 2 inj per cylinder and just fire both together for simplicity, so that's effectively around 1400cc per cylinder ( probably a little more as I run higher base pressure too )

I've used 1300-2000cc injectors on 4 cylinder engines too with good results. Although the 2000's not perfect, but still good...even more so considering they're a gas injector, not really intended for liquid.

The 26lb you refer to are maybe LS ? they typically run a base near 60psi so in that application flow would be low 30's and fine for their 350-400hp or so
But if you're running them at the more commonly used 45ish psi, they will support less power.

But if they will support your goals, then all good. No need to go larger. But 440's definitely are not big and will not be the cause of any running issues, unless the injectors themselves are bad.
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

Spongo
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Post by Spongo »

Well I run 540cc injectors in my 6.3l SBC, it runs pretty well and I had no idling issues at all.
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B33fy
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Post by B33fy »

Paul at V8 Tuner is sorting me out with some Yella Terra Rockers and new British made shafts. Also sorting a heavy duty clutch out along with a lightened flywheel. Newman cam ordered.

My ACT induction should be complete by next week, been waiting over 4 months for the throttle body. Omex loom has arrived also. So it's finally moving in the right direction.

The newly rebuilt R380 gearbox has turned up do I'm going to install it along with the diff just to get a few more miles out the old engine whilst I piece this one together.

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Post by SuperV8 »

I'm using Bosch 440 injectors 0280155968 in my 4.6, and idle is perfect.


Tom.
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B33fy
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Post by B33fy »

Bit of an update, finally picked up my induction system, and assembled the manifold.

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New Gearbox and Quaife ATB fitted so out blatting with the gang. The orange car runs a 4.6 which is a similar spec I'm aiming for, putting out around 330bhp.

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Roller Rockers got and trial fitted, need some machining done, going for longer shafts and a new design for the outrigger posts as the end rockers don't quite fit as they should.

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stevieturbo
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Post by stevieturbo »

Intake looks great !
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

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