E10

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richardpope50
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E10

Post by richardpope50 »

So does anyone have a clue as to whether E10 fuel will harm an RV8? Clearly we all have different tanks, filters and pipes but is there a problem with the RV8's EFI system itself? Mine's a 1997 engine (without a Cat) in case that makes a difference.

(Yes, I know E5 will still exist for five years in super unleaded but 2026 is not hat far off.)


Richard.
Dax Rush 5.0l TVR V8, EFI with Megasquirt ECU and wasted spark, Racelogic Traction Control, ABS and Quaife LSD

stevieturbo
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Re: E10

Post by stevieturbo »

I'd love to know why they're stopping at 10...we need E85 lol
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

DaveEFI
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Re: E10

Post by DaveEFI »

I'm wondering if any possible problems are overhyped? I've heard it said it will rot your fuel tank. But ordinary petrol managed that OK over the years anyway. And why a change from the present 5% to 10% will be a disaster? We do know ethanol can attack some types of 'rubber'. So old fuel hoses could be a problem - but most will not be original by now anyway. Also things like anti-freeze and screenwash have contained alcohol for many years now, and the materials in contact with that seem to survive OK. With a very high alcohol content, you'd need to re-map, of course.
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stevieturbo
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Re: E10

Post by stevieturbo »

DaveEFI wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:55 am
I'm wondering if any possible problems are overhyped? I've heard it said it will rot your fuel tank. But ordinary petrol managed that OK over the years anyway. And why a change from the present 5% to 10% will be a disaster? We do know ethanol can attack some types of 'rubber'. So old fuel hoses could be a problem - but most will not be original by now anyway. Also things like anti-freeze and screenwash have contained alcohol for many years now, and the materials in contact with that seem to survive OK. With a very high alcohol content, you'd need to re-map, of course.

I really doubt it will make any difference. Depending on the actual blend...perhaps the cars may require a little more fuel, but presumably they'll have the fuel sorted enough that people will not need to re-tune.

Either way, it is a very small minority who may face problems, and it's a lot smaller of an issue than going from 4 star to unleaded was. And everyone managed that ok.
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

r2d2hp
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Re: E10

Post by r2d2hp »

When you say everyone managed that ok it was not without issues. I was taken in by the Formula Shell advert in the 1980 and solely run my car on it. IIt done my Swaymar heads on V6 Capri at a cost of £500 each.

I have not see any TV add advising people of older vehicles to replace their hoses as the fuel of today destroys them which has led to many fires and near misses for many people. Its scandalous the government has not brought this to people attention

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Ian Anderson
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Re: E10

Post by Ian Anderson »

In a previous life, I lived in Rhodesia and then Zimbabwe.

Because of sanctions there was not enough hard currency to pay for the country fuel needs, but they had a hell of an agricultural output including cane sugar that they turned into ethanol.

Then then mixed said ethanol with petrol, 4 star in the U.K., and came up sixth stuff called Blend, which was all that was available to purchase.

Supposedly is was a 15% ethanol to 85% petrol, which was ok then the proper scientists and controls were in place, even then everyone was advised to change rubber fuel hoses to ones that were ok with the blend, and also on some cars the carb needed worked, some had plastic floats that needed changed and others had needles and seats with plastic to hold in place and they also “melted”

We also got less miles per gallon.

And in hot weather the ethanol caused evaporation and some cars were a bugger to start with a hot engine, like when you stopped and filled up with fuel! Many cars were seen at garages with bonnets open allowing heat out!

A lot of cars also had pinking issues when under load /accelerating.

Roll on a few years and mass exodus of chemists and in came political appointees to oversee said fuel mix process and we sometimes had full petrol and other times up to 50% ethanol, and if you got that stuff expect bad running, lots of pinking, and terrible fuel consumption. Everyone also added redex into the fuel at every fill. One shot per 5 litres. When that became short on supply we added about 10cc of oil per 5 litres fuel, as upper cylinder lubricant to try and stem some horrific bore wear.

No doubt in the U.K. the control of the blend will be better controlled, but I would like to know if all the fuel pumps, injectors non return valves, pressure regulators etc contain no plastics that will be adversely affected, and also that any blend will not cause premature bore wear. I presume the current EFI systems will adjust timing to cure the pinking problems encountered with points and carbs!

Perhaps this real life experience may assist!

Ian
Owner of an "On the Road" GT40 Replica by DAX powered by 3.9Hotwre Efi, worked over by DJ Motors. EFi Working but still does some kangaroo at low revs (Damn the speed limits) In to paint shop 18/03/08.

DaveEFI
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Re: E10

Post by DaveEFI »

r2d2hp wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:11 pm
When you say everyone managed that ok it was not without issues. I was taken in by the Formula Shell advert in the 1980 and solely run my car on it. IIt done my Swaymar heads on V6 Capri at a cost of £500 each.

I have not see any TV add advising people of older vehicles to replace their hoses as the fuel of today destroys them which has led to many fires and near misses for many people. Its scandalous the government has not brought this to people attention


The meja hypes up the problem, and someone sells a snake oil cure. Both make money out of it - wonder why? :D
It was pretty well know by the time unleaded was the only petrol that cylinder heads made of cast iron were going to suffer - unless harder steel inserts were fitted. But then they suffered anyway with leaded. Valve re-grinds being common. How often do you do that today?
Dave
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garrycol
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Re: E10

Post by garrycol »

In Australia we have had E10 since 2003. We had and still have the usual hype of water in the fuel, rotting old rubber etc. The government came out and said all vehicles sold since 1986 were ok to use E10. Older ones did have some issues but most had already changed to more modern components so generally it was Ok.

It was and still is marketed as the cheapest petrol to buy but repeated tests have shown that compared with our unleaded 91 fuel the E10 performs poorly from a mpg perspective - basically that found that while E10 was the cheapest to buy, when mpg was taken into account unleaded 91 was best because even though E10 has a higher octane rating of 94 so can be used in higher comp engines, it has a lower calorific value so has less zoom zoom than 91 or higher octane fuels.

At the time Land Rover had a clause in its warranties that ethanol fuels were not to be used and warranties would not be honoured but the Government said it was OK so owners were put in a bit of a spot. I believe the Consumer Affairs people had a word to LR that if they did not comply with Govt policies there would be problems and no warranties were knocked back on the basis of the use of ethanol fuel.

E10 is not popular due to the publicity of poor value on the road but there have not been any major reliability issues reported in the media. The main issue is in small engines like lawn mowers and outboards where fuel may be stored for a long period of time and it collects water causing corrosion.

Garry

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Re: E10

Post by stevieturbo »

r2d2hp wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:11 pm
When you say everyone managed that ok it was not without issues. I was taken in by the Formula Shell advert in the 1980 and solely run my car on it. IIt done my Swaymar heads on V6 Capri at a cost of £500 each.

I have not see any TV add advising people of older vehicles to replace their hoses as the fuel of today destroys them which has led to many fires and near misses for many people. Its scandalous the government has not brought this to people attention
They are in a substantial minority. And let's face it, if the cars are that old and neglected...the fuel hoses probably need changed anyway.

it's another small change, it's no big deal....just get on with it. As said, it's very minor compared to the loss of 4 star, and the world kept going.

And there is no way the fuel will just suddenly cause good condition hoses to fail.

And we still need E85 here !
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

stevieturbo
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Re: E10

Post by stevieturbo »

DaveEFI wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:59 am
The meja hypes up the problem, and someone sells a snake oil cure. Both make money out of it - wonder why? :D
It was pretty well know by the time unleaded was the only petrol that cylinder heads made of cast iron were going to suffer - unless harder steel inserts were fitted. But then they suffered anyway with leaded. Valve re-grinds being common. How often do you do that today?

We need some of those steel balls to put inside the tank....
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

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SimpleSimon
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Re: E10

Post by SimpleSimon »

Stevie grins hugely whilst posting that comment :mrgreen: back to the E10 thing over hyped like mentioned already but fuel hose quality needs watching branded R9 a must have IMO
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Mc Tool
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Re: E10

Post by Mc Tool »

Ian Anderson wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:05 pm
In a previous life, I lived in Rhodesia and then Zimbabwe.

Ian
Why did you move ? 😆
I wish I was young again , Id be heaps smarter than the first time

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