MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

General Chat About Electrics, And Ignition Systems.

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scudderfish
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MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by scudderfish »

As two people have now asked for progress, I thought I'd start a thread. My car is a Fisher Fury which started off 13 years ago with a 3.5 on a DGAS carb. To cut a long story short it now has an ex-TVR 4.3 on MS1Extra and EDIS. I'm also a developer working on MSDroid https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... om.msdroid.
I was getting bored with MS1 and I was casting around for ideas. MS2 was obvious, but obvious is well, obvious. I read a series of blog posts by a guy in NZ who ran this thing called Speeduino on his SD1 and I had a few people mention it in regards to MSDroid. I was intrigued as here was an ECU I could run on a £12 Arduino on my desk to test against MSDroid. Very handy, and I even managed to write some Speeduino code whilst on a beach in Greece which I never could have done with MS. The source code to Speeduino is easily available, modifiable and legible. 3 things that cannot be said of the MS code.
I have no interest in building a board, so I bought a CORE4 ECU from https://diy-efi.co.uk/product/diy-efi-core4-te36 and because BT is too easy, I dropped an ESP8266 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08FBZ7NRL into it so I can use WiFi.
I need to remove the VR crank sensor and replace it with a hall effect one, and find myself some LS coils. I'll still be running wasted spark as the CORE4 only has 4 spark outputs. That's the plan anyway....



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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by scudderfish »

It's a lot neater
IMG_20201003_105733595.jpg
IMG_20201003_110526610.jpg
With WiFi added
PXL_20201016_075007954.jpg

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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by SuperV8 »

Interesting,
How does it compare with MS1/MS2 spec/price wise?
Dax Rush 4.6 supercharged V8 MSII

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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by DaveEFI »

scudderfish wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:40 pm
It's a lot neater
IMG_20201003_105733595.jpg

IMG_20201003_110526610.jpg

With WiFi added
PXL_20201016_075007954.jpg
Your MSI V3 board has a through hole PCB designed for home build, so of course it's bigger. But does mean it is easier to alter/add things to. If size is a problem there is the MicroSquirt.

BTW, you can add a VR input board to your Speeduino, rather than change the sensor to hall.

I've got a Speeduino here. Be interesting to swap it for the MS2 on my SD1, but doubt I'll ever get round to it.
Dave
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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by scudderfish »

SuperV8 wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:46 am
Interesting,
How does it compare with MS1/MS2 spec/price wise?
The one I bought cost £270, and the Wifi thing £8 (need to do some more work on MSDroid to get it fully functional). You can spend a lot less. It is way more capable than an MS1. I don't know how it compares to MS2, but it is under very active development so any feature comparison today will be out of date in 2 months time. It doesn't have the range of documentation as MSx or the same number of users, so it's more like the early days of MS.

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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by scudderfish »

Tiny update, I printed some brackets to mount it with.
PXL_20201217_125520087.jpg

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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by scudderfish »

It turns out the ESP8266 for wifi was a bad idea as it caused spurious signals on the hall sensor line. Slowly working up towards getting the engine to fire.

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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by scudderfish »

And now I've managed to cook half of one of my two coilpacks. Waiting for a pair of new packs with inbuilt ignitors to arrive now. The only remaining parts of the original control system will be the coolant and air temp sensors :)

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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by DaveEFI »

Were the coils powered at switch on? Some power them from the fuel pump circuit so they are only powered up engine running.
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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by scudderfish »

No, entirely my fault disregarding warnings and poking things I shouldn't :)

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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by GDCobra »

DaveEFI wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:38 am
Were the coils powered at switch on? Some power them from the fuel pump circuit so they are only powered up engine running.
Depend# what fuelling system in use. If it’s Rover v8 with 14CUX that won’t work as coils need to be powered to get a pulse to the 14CUX before fuel pump starts, unless you start engine during initial fuel pump priming run.
Could be good for anti theft I suppose.

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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by DaveEFI »

GDCobra wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:17 pm
DaveEFI wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:38 am
Were the coils powered at switch on? Some power them from the fuel pump circuit so they are only powered up engine running.
Depend# what fuelling system in use. If it’s Rover v8 with 14CUX that won’t work as coils need to be powered to get a pulse to the 14CUX before fuel pump starts, unless you start engine during initial fuel pump priming run.
Could be good for anti theft I suppose.
You've just reminded me of another reason why taking the ECU tach signal from the coils ain't ideal. :D If it were a low voltage signal from the ignition ECU, you could then power the coils from the pump relay and prevent them taking current engine stopped.
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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by GDCobra »

DaveEFI wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 8:51 am
GDCobra wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:17 pm
DaveEFI wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:38 am
Were the coils powered at switch on? Some power them from the fuel pump circuit so they are only powered up engine running.
Depends what fuelling system in use. If it’s Rover v8 with 14CUX that won’t work as coils need to be powered to get a pulse to the 14CUX before fuel pump starts, unless you start engine during initial fuel pump priming run.
Could be good for anti theft I suppose.
You've just reminded me of another reason why taking the ECU tach signal from the coils ain't ideal. :D If it were a low voltage signal from the ignition ECU, you could then power the coils from the pump relay and prevent them taking current engine stopped.
First of all apologies if this is a thread hijack.

Totally agree Dave, this is another reason why I'd like to have the coils totally isolated from the 14CUX but as it has been indicated that the CUX needs a high voltage (circa 70v apparently) the only way appears to be a coil. I'm still intending trying to use a relay coil to generate the pulse from the MS TACHO signal and I'll keep you posted on that.

On the subject of leaving current passing through the coils without engine running.
I did a bit of thinking on this while fitting the MS (and the NODIZ) and hooked my coils up to a separate 12v ign supply so I could keep them off when not needed
However my thinking was that the current should only flow through the coil driver when this is switched to ground which should only be immediately prior to firing (the dwell period of circa 3mS) therefore having the 12v supply present should not present a problem as this should only happen for this limited time and only when the engine is turning anyhow.
What do you think? Have I miss-understood anything there?

Of course current could also flow through the diodes and into the 14CUX pin 39 when that system is in use depending on the impedance of this input.

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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by DaveEFI »

I did play with the relay coil voltage amplifier as shown in the MS instructions. Using a spare SPDT relay from my SD1- with is a pretty standard 5 pin plug in thingie. Coil resistance of about 75ohms. Drove it on the bench from a JimStim, which produces a tach signal, either square wave or (nearly) sine wave. To replicate a VR or hall sensor.

With the MS circuit, I got about 40v peak on the scope. That is said to be plenty to drive a Smiths RVI tach, which gets the same coil negative signal as the 14CUX in some installations. If the 14CUx really does need 80v, you'd need a different circuit.
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Re: MS1/EDIS to Speeduino

Post by GDCobra »

DaveEFI wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 3:43 pm
I did play with the relay coil voltage amplifier as shown in the MS instructions. Using a spare SPDT relay from my SD1- with is a pretty standard 5 pin plug in thingie. Coil resistance of about 75ohms. Drove it on the bench from a JimStim, which produces a tach signal, either square wave or (nearly) sine wave. To replicate a VR or hall sensor.

With the MS circuit, I got about 40v peak on the scope. That is said to be plenty to drive a Smiths RVI tach, which gets the same coil negative signal as the 14CUX in some installations. If the 14CUx really does need 80v, you'd need a different circuit.
Thanks Dave,
Not sounding too hopeful unfortunately. I may give it a try anyhow as I already have a relay “adapted”, just need a bit of wiring to plug it in.

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