Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

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DaveEFI
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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by DaveEFI »

I've only ever used BIP373 where an ignitor is needed, since MS changed to them from a IGBT round about the time I got interested - and said why they were better.
I've never seen an RV8 fitted with LS1 etc individual coils. So did wonder where they'd go and not look untidy.


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stevieturbo
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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by stevieturbo »

DaveEFI wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:44 am
I've only ever used BIP373 where an ignitor is needed, since MS changed to them from a IGBT round about the time I got interested - and said why they were better.
I've never seen an RV8 fitted with LS1 etc individual coils. So did wonder where they'd go and not look untidy.
Rover V8 usually has huge flat rocker covers.....I'd say it has to be one of the easiest engines to consider mounting them on.
9.85 @ 144.75mph
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by DaveEFI »

stevieturbo wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:02 pm
DaveEFI wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:44 am
I've only ever used BIP373 where an ignitor is needed, since MS changed to them from a IGBT round about the time I got interested - and said why they were better.
I've never seen an RV8 fitted with LS1 etc individual coils. So did wonder where they'd go and not look untidy.
Rover V8 usually has huge flat rocker covers.....I'd say it has to be one of the easiest engines to consider mounting them on.
Yes - on the driver side. But the air intake on the nearside. Anyone got a pic of that installation?
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stevieturbo
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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by stevieturbo »

DaveEFI wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:11 pm
stevieturbo wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:02 pm
DaveEFI wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:44 am
I've only ever used BIP373 where an ignitor is needed, since MS changed to them from a IGBT round about the time I got interested - and said why they were better.
I've never seen an RV8 fitted with LS1 etc individual coils. So did wonder where they'd go and not look untidy.
Rover V8 usually has huge flat rocker covers.....I'd say it has to be one of the easiest engines to consider mounting them on.
Yes - on the driver side. But the air intake on the nearside. Anyone got a pic of that installation?
Not everyone uses the same intake, not every Rover uses the same intake.

When I had mine nearly 20 years ago, I ran coil per plug with some Bosch coils mounted over the rocker covers, and a front entry plenum.

LS coils are pretty small though, and if you used them on their existing brackets, would probably mount below the old SD1 type plenum anyway ?
Never had much need to measure, but I'd say they're less than 50mm if installed as per they are on an LS engine. I've a few in the garage so will measure tomorrow
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by GDCobra »

I’m using the standard Hotwire plenum and it sits very close to the top of the rocker cover, and I can’t lift it much before the bonnet will hit it.
May be possibilities to mount on the side of the rocker cover need to wait until I have the AFM back in place.

But for now I think I’ll be sticking with plan A, using the GEMS coils. I’m happy these will give me an improvement over what I have now and be a straightforward enough install. Anything requiring children construction of bracketry and so on at the moment is out.

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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by stevieturbo »

If you mount the coils in the GM brackets they are usually found, you could get as low a profile as 45mm ( actually a fraction less if you really wanted )
Or there are a plethora of other brackets available that mount them in the same fashion, just for different applications.

The LS coils are not big at all.

If you were to mount them upright and stack sideways, the later D514's would be around 60mm tall.

Earlier square LS coils would be taller though, but they're less common these days anyway.
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by DaveEFI »

If going to the trouble and expense of fitting 8 active coils, you might as well go for sequential ignition.
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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by GDCobra »

Just for reference as I’m not planning on going this way (at the moment at least) I just did a bit of measuring, the clearance between the lowest point of the manifold and the rocker cover is only about 10-15mm however this is to the manifold heater which (on my car) could be removed as not used, that would give around 38mm, still a bit tight.

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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by GDCobra »

DaveEFI wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:47 pm
If going to the trouble and expense of fitting 8 active coils, you might as well go for sequential ignition.
I’d agree with that so maybe a project for another day (year) but not now. I also don’t think that is going to be possible to get an ignition only ECU firing 8 coils. Seems like no one can be bothered to make one of them.
Could get a full EMS and not use the fuelling side or replace the Hotwire system but that seems like a lot of work for little or no gain. Not they that’s stopped me before!

stevieturbo
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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by stevieturbo »

DaveEFI wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:47 pm
If going to the trouble and expense of fitting 8 active coils, you might as well go for sequential ignition.

As it is so easy to fit 8 coils...there is no need at all for the additional expense and fitment of a cam sensor for sequential ignition.

You'd be creating the expense by going sequential, 8 x LS coils can be had fairly cheaply and would be a doddle to fit.
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by stevieturbo »

GDCobra wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:25 pm
DaveEFI wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:47 pm
If going to the trouble and expense of fitting 8 active coils, you might as well go for sequential ignition.
I’d agree with that so maybe a project for another day (year) but not now. I also don’t think that is going to be possible to get an ignition only ECU firing 8 coils. Seems like no one can be bothered to make one of them.
Could get a full EMS and not use the fuelling side or replace the Hotwire system but that seems like a lot of work for little or no gain. Not they that’s stopped me before!

Using and EFI ecu for sparks only is no additional work. You just wire it up for what you want to use.

And the Nodiz claims it can fire both inductive and IGBT type coils ? So it can fire 8 LS coils just wired in a waste spark style. Just means it will be neater than using a pair of 4 tower coils.
9.85 @ 144.75mph
202mph standing mile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by scudderfish »

I'm slowly replacing my MS1/EDIS setup with Speeduino (why? because I can) and I was originally thinking of sticking with my existing coil packs, but running 8 LS ones is now very tempting. This thread has been a great source of info.

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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by GDCobra »

stevieturbo wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:45 pm
And the Nodiz claims it can fire both inductive and IGBT type coils ? So it can fire 8 LS coils just wired in a waste spark style. Just means it will be neater than using a pair of 4 tower coils.
Could be handy to have that available. Means I could set up initially with my GEMS coils, if I want to have a play and look into LS coils I could do and then if I wanted to go further and fire individually (not wasted spark) then I could look at new ECU and sort out a cam position sensor.
I don't really see the Cam-PS as problem, I'm going to be chopping down an old dizzy to act as an oil pump drive, don't think would be too much of a problem doing in such a way that I can add a trigger to it. My understanding is that the Cam-PS is used in addition to Crank-PS and used to indicate phase so doesn't even need to be so accurate, the actual timing still coming from the crank.

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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by DaveEFI »

scudderfish wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:41 am
I'm slowly replacing my MS1/EDIS setup with Speeduino (why? because I can) and I was originally thinking of sticking with my existing coil packs, but running 8 LS ones is now very tempting. This thread has been a great source of info.
Keep us informed about the Speeduino. An SD1 club member in Oz fitted one, but not had any recent reports. I did buy a bare PCB off Ebay, but never went any further with it. Idea being it would make a cheaper 'P&P' unit to replace the flapper on an SD1 than MS, fitting it inside a 4CU ECU case.
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Re: Distributorless ignition using GEMS coils and Hotwire system

Post by GDCobra »

scudderfish wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:41 am
I'm slowly replacing my MS1/EDIS setup with Speeduino (why? because I can) and I was originally thinking of sticking with my existing coil packs, but running 8 LS ones is now very tempting. This thread has been a great source of info.
Keep us posted on how that goes. Presume that's on RV8 too?

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