Issue with wasted spark ignition
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Depending on the tach input circuitry, you may need an external pull up (or pull down) resistor.
Some hall effect sensors are quite temperature sensitive. Some have an upper limit below what you could see under bonnet.
If it were a regular misfire the type of sensor would be suspect, though. But an occasional one like this is going to be difficult to find.
EDIS is just about the most reliable ignition system ever made - and that uses a VR sensor.
Some hall effect sensors are quite temperature sensitive. Some have an upper limit below what you could see under bonnet.
If it were a regular misfire the type of sensor would be suspect, though. But an occasional one like this is going to be difficult to find.
EDIS is just about the most reliable ignition system ever made - and that uses a VR sensor.
Dave
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
The software has an engine data page when you can see the rpm, trigger count etc.
With the first Hall sensor the starting rpm was around 2000 rpm i.e. a bit excessive. That was my mistake, I did not check the Honeywell data sheet. It required at least 10 mm gap from tooth to tooth. The gap on my trigger wheel was less.
My friend has the same E6X in his supercharged Mini with 60-2 triggerwheel. I checked which sensor he is using and bought a same Opel/Vauxhall sensor. That read the rpm correctly but apparently did not read the missing tooth since it would fire only some of the cylinders. I used a timing lamp to check which cylinders fired which did not.
The VR sensor fixed these problems and the engine fired instantly and started behaving as it should.
The VR sensor is a Ford Zetec sensor.
Settings are as per the E6X manual states.
I have played with the VR sensor gain and filter settings in the sofware. I got them wrong and the engine did not run past 4700 rpm at dyno.
Again, please remember that I can trash the engine all day long past 6000 rpm and it runs flawlessly. It is only when cruising at steady speed that this occurs.
With the first Hall sensor the starting rpm was around 2000 rpm i.e. a bit excessive. That was my mistake, I did not check the Honeywell data sheet. It required at least 10 mm gap from tooth to tooth. The gap on my trigger wheel was less.
My friend has the same E6X in his supercharged Mini with 60-2 triggerwheel. I checked which sensor he is using and bought a same Opel/Vauxhall sensor. That read the rpm correctly but apparently did not read the missing tooth since it would fire only some of the cylinders. I used a timing lamp to check which cylinders fired which did not.
The VR sensor fixed these problems and the engine fired instantly and started behaving as it should.
The VR sensor is a Ford Zetec sensor.
Settings are as per the E6X manual states.
I have played with the VR sensor gain and filter settings in the sofware. I got them wrong and the engine did not run past 4700 rpm at dyno.
Again, please remember that I can trash the engine all day long past 6000 rpm and it runs flawlessly. It is only when cruising at steady speed that this occurs.
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There are reliable systems all over the world that use either sensor. As proven by millions of OEM engines that use either.
But obviously all parts need to work together, when you start using a selection of different parts then hope to get them working together, problems can occur.
Not all sensors are the same, not all VR sensors are the same, not all hall sensors are the same, nor is the ecu circuitry within whatever they are attached to....and indeed the wiring it'self, and its routing and environment
Depending how annoying the problem is, changing one thing at a time and just going with that to see if it changes is probably best approach as if you change a lot of things you might never know what fixes it ( although if its fixed you may not care lol )
But the above is why using an OEM hall, with it's matching trigger wheel is usually best. It gives a simple clean square wave output regardless of rpm. No f***** about which if you're having problems....matters !
But obviously all parts need to work together, when you start using a selection of different parts then hope to get them working together, problems can occur.
Not all sensors are the same, not all VR sensors are the same, not all hall sensors are the same, nor is the ecu circuitry within whatever they are attached to....and indeed the wiring it'self, and its routing and environment
Depending how annoying the problem is, changing one thing at a time and just going with that to see if it changes is probably best approach as if you change a lot of things you might never know what fixes it ( although if its fixed you may not care lol )
But the above is why using an OEM hall, with it's matching trigger wheel is usually best. It gives a simple clean square wave output regardless of rpm. No f***** about which if you're having problems....matters !
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When DTA released their S series 10 years ago, they deliberately built the metal case isolated from all electrical parts....seemingly some morons in the past managed to short the ecu case on things like batteries etc so he deemed it safer to fully isolate the case on the new ecuminorv8 wrote:
Again, please remember that I can trash the engine all day long past 6000 rpm and it runs flawlessly. It is only when cruising at steady speed that this occurs.
However in some small cases...and I think mine was the first, at low loads, very random the engine would do almost what I think you're describing. This tortured me for ages. Allan eventually said to earth the ecu case. This resolved the issue.
Again...it points to an interference issue somewhere. Again check wiring...VR should use twisted screened pair. Route nowhere near any HT wiring, always use resistor spark plugs.
I've used a Ford VR sensor myself for many years too without any problems...but on a wheel supplied with tooth sizes etc to suit.
Certainly with MS setting the zero crossing point wrongly in the tach input can result in it cutting out at highish revs. But that will be constant - not intermittent.
You need some way of looking at the signal the processor is getting from the tach sensor and input circuitry. To see if there is a disturbance when your fault occurs.
Is the car rev counter showing something odd when the fault occurs? If the ECU isn't seeing pulses or any other ignition funny, the rev-counter won't be getting the correct pulses either.
You need some way of looking at the signal the processor is getting from the tach sensor and input circuitry. To see if there is a disturbance when your fault occurs.
Is the car rev counter showing something odd when the fault occurs? If the ECU isn't seeing pulses or any other ignition funny, the rev-counter won't be getting the correct pulses either.
Dave
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
London SW
Rover SD1 VDP EFI
MegaSquirt2 V3
EDIS8
Tech Edge 2Y
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- Forum Contributor
- Posts: 3979
- Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:22 pm
- Location: Northern Ireland
Again it all depends on the sensor, wheel diameter, tooth size/pitch etc...
That's why hall is almost always more reliable. They either work, or they dont. VR being a variable voltage and more susceptible to interference through bad wiring etc....just has more failure options.
Although if you pick an OEM wheel and use the relevant sensor that's usually a good starting point too.
Maybe it's resolved though...or just run it on the dyno all the time
That's why hall is almost always more reliable. They either work, or they dont. VR being a variable voltage and more susceptible to interference through bad wiring etc....just has more failure options.
Although if you pick an OEM wheel and use the relevant sensor that's usually a good starting point too.
Maybe it's resolved though...or just run it on the dyno all the time
How are you firing your coil packs?
Could be getting electrical noise in your sensitive circuits?
I had a problem similar to yours (although i'm using MS) random 'hiccups' when cruising, it may have happened at higher RPM but it wasn't noticeable. I was getting noise in my crank signal from the MS firing the high current coil packs internally, which used to be when they recommended for ease of setup. Now they recommend using an external coil module for dumb coil packs which only needs a small logic signal from your ECU.
Tom.
Could be getting electrical noise in your sensitive circuits?
I had a problem similar to yours (although i'm using MS) random 'hiccups' when cruising, it may have happened at higher RPM but it wasn't noticeable. I was getting noise in my crank signal from the MS firing the high current coil packs internally, which used to be when they recommended for ease of setup. Now they recommend using an external coil module for dumb coil packs which only needs a small logic signal from your ECU.
Tom.
Dax Rush 4.6 supercharged V8 MSII