Cheap Aftermarket Ignition ECUs

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garrycol
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Cheap Aftermarket Ignition ECUs

Post by garrycol » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:36 pm

Just looking for alternatives to fire up RV8 ignition - no dizzy.

Will ultimately have MS3 but in the interim I am looking at what cheap aftermarket (off the shelf) ignition ECUs that may be available - I am aware of MegaJolt bit wanting to know what else is available for a cheaper price.

Thanks

Garry



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Post by DaveEFI » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:45 am

You need to decide if you want to go sequential or wasted spark.

I don't think there is a particularly cheap system available.

Beauty with MS is it is made in big quantities using standard components which keeps the cost down - and can be bought used easily, from Ebay.

If you want a simple bolt on kit that works straight out of the box, that is going to be the most costly way.

EDIS plus a controller is likely to be the simplest DIY method. You can use MS ignition only, and add the fuel control later.

One interesting project I've only recently heard of is :-
http://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Speeduino

But not a simple bolt on job.

Personally, I'd go MS from the start. Perhaps the major job is making the new loom to a good standard. That could be made for ignition only, then added to when you go fuel too. You could buy a used MS1 for about the same cost as a new MegaJolt, and sell it when you go MS3. Much or the basic wiring etc will be the same.
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Post by garrycol » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:58 am

Thanks Dave - yes know all that but MS3 and injection is still a way off.

So looking for a ignition only ECU that will either work with EDis or without.

EDIS will get my engine running on the fitted carbs but for various reasons I need to make the vehicle move and I don't think that having ignition on a static 10 BTDC will work driving up and downhill.

So was hoping that there may be a cheap ECU that would suffice. It does not have to work well just allow the vehicle to drive for a few hundred km. Ultimately the MS3 and injection will be going in when it is all built.

Cheers

Garry

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Post by DaveEFI » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:36 am

EDIS stays as is no matter what ECU you use to control it. I'd look for a used unit - MS or MJ, if EDIS is fine for your final set-up too.

From what I've seen there are more MS around used than MJ. Buying used means you'll be able to sell it later for near zero loss. Any MS will control EDIS. MS1 can be bought for about £150 used. MS2 usually under £250.
MS3 is a bit new to come on the used market often.

I'm still using EDIS on my RV8 because it has worked perfectly for many years. But if starting again, I'd used MS to generate the sparks too, as you then have a user adjustable rev limiter and adjustable dwell. And so on.

BTW, EDIS only defaults to 10 BTDC limp home if you have set the trigger wheel/VR sensor positions to its spec. You could set that default to anything you choose. As much advance as the starter can cope with, by moving the trigger wheel.

When cash is tight, it makes sense not to save a penny only to loose pounds later. And a little know ignition system bought new is likely to be more difficult to sell on.
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Post by stevieturbo » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:12 pm

If you're going to be fitting injection at a later date..just buy that ecu now and run it ignition only.

Buying an ignition only system now to throw it away later doesnt make much sense.

At the really cheap end of things Spitronics from South Africa make some stuff

http://www.spitronics.co.za/products/index.php

Not sure if they do ignition only though, but you could ask.
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Post by garrycol » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:45 am

Thanks for the comments - I will have a look at the Spitronic and see if they can be sourced locally.

Cheers

Garry

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Post by stevieturbo » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:39 am

Locally, the likes of an old Link or Haltech etc are more likely given they're based in that region of the world ?

Motec too, but they can be silly money for no real benefit.
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Post by Ian Anderson » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:23 pm

What about something from a Range Rover, but only use the spark side?
Not sure if it can be done but a breakers yard would be cheap
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Post by garrycol » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:21 am

Thanks for all the suggestions - as I said just looking at options but it does not seem anything is readily available as a cheap price.

My MS3 is about half built so I guess I can pull the finger out and get it built.

I have the appropriate airflow meter and sensors etc to provide engine load input to the MS3 from a Thor system but initially I will just have carbs fitted.

So looking for suggestions on how to provide load (vacuum) from the 3.5 inlet manifold to the the MS3 ECU and is it actually necessary.

Now in its original configuration with a dizzy my original engine it was twin points, mechanical advance but as designed no vacuum advance. Likewise I have another vehicle at the moment that does not have vaccum advance as deigned and both vehicles never had an issue without it.

So using MS3 how do I feed vacuum input to the ECU but is it really needed just to get the vehicle moving for a hundred or so miles.

Thanks

Garry

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Post by stevieturbo » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:47 am

Screw the MAF.... ( not literally of course )

And vacuum/MAP signal is simply anywhere between the throttles and intake valves. ie the intake manifold.
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Post by DaveEFI » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:53 am

Very basically, vacuum ignition advance is provided to improve economy. But with MS doing the fuelling, the MAP also tells engine load. It only needs a connection on the engine side of the throttle body, so easy to do, as your MS3 already has the sensor.

If you already have an MS3, absolute waste of money using any other ECU to do sparks only.

If you are using an RV8 inlet manifold and carbs, it will already have a vacuum take-off for brake servo and possibly other things like heater controls, as well as the dizzy.

Be interesting how you find the Thor manifold. Most use the older Lucas one, as it gives more top end.
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Post by garrycol » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:18 am

Thanks but the MS3 ECU cannot directly read manifold pressure. It needs a sensor and the injection sensor is different (its measure airflow vs throttle position). So what do I need to connect between the manifold sucker and the ECU so the ECU can read the vacuum when using carbs.

Cheers

Garry

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Post by DaveEFI » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:50 am

Which MS3? I have one, and it uses the same PCB as MS1 and 2. Called a V3 PCB. Which has a MAP sensor. Since you said you're building the MS3, the V3 board is the only one which can be user assembled. All the others are machine made.

In your kit, it should be in a bag labelled U2 MPX 4250.

Pretty well all MS allow you to determine fuel injection by TPS, MAP, or a combination of both. All done in software.
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Post by garrycol » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:24 am

The board itself does not have the sensor - it has input from a sensor.

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Post by DaveEFI » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:49 am

Not sure what you mean. The MAP sensor is on the PCB. It requires a vacuum tube to it, rather obviously.
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