Rover V8 ECU

patrolmania · Post by **patrolmania** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:07 am

Hi,

I'm thinking of buying an ECU for my 3.9 rover v8 engine (pre serpentine). Would like to buy one that if I decide to change to a 4.6 or 5.2 I can reuse.

Some say Megasquirt, others Canems system, others OMEX other Tornado and others DTA.
Which are the best ? How much complicated are they to tune ? Cost ?

Can you experts light up the tunnel I'm in.

Thanks

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:45 am

Hi
Tornado, need a new chip for every change you make to your set up, and it is still basically a stock non mapable ECU, in the long run it will cost more for fewer features than anything else I can think of it.
megasquirt/exrtaefi, if you are prepared to spend the time getting it to work properly then it probably offers the best features at a price. It is not a professional solution, it is a hobby, the components are selected for ease of supply, they have often swapped out automotive versions for cheaper/ easier to get general electronica versions that are not as good in noisey environments, the software in the ECU and for setting up (tuner studio) is appallingly badly written with no structure and no change control so and the circuit diagrams are often wrong, lack the basic information (there is no correct functional pin out for the connectors as a result things like the rev counter are driven off the main tach input for the ECU. As I say if you are prepared to put in the time to get it working I would allow at least 200 hours just for bug fixing, 40 for installation, I would recommending building and testing your own unit because you will know it is right and that will take another 30 to 40 to do it properly.you then have to set it up and tune it and that will be another 50 or so in the first year. you save money but it costs a lot of time.
I do not know the others but I would recommend getting to see the set up software for each and have a play before you buy, if they can't or won't let you try it out and just fob you off with a power point demo or a glosey brochure then just walk away.
Have a look at the software for the MSD digital series ignition ECUs and judge everything else against these, they are very good and show what can be done, try and get something with the software, wiring kits and back up information/manuals to this standard.
best regards
Mike

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:11 am

Think you're being rather hard on MS.

All the documentation for MS Extra has recently been revised, so that pertinent to your version is easier to find.

I can't comment on the software MS uses as I don't understand such things. But as regards the user side, I find TunerStudio pretty good.

Your comments about quality of components was interesting. I've built and repaired several dozen, and most of the hardware faults have been down to either the user doing something stupid, or poor construction. And the fact it uses standard components means they're also easy to source, and cheap. MS publish schematics which makes it possible for any half competent tech to repair it - whereas others might be maker fix only.

It's very true that an installation from scratch requires a steep learning curve - but this surely is the same for any make if you DIY?

Of course if you're having the injection installed and tuned by a pro there might well be better makes. But very few will be able to afford this.

Perhaps the thing which attracted me most to MS is the support via its forums. You'll get help from the guys who designed it and wrote the software on there if needed.

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:34 am

patrolmania wrote:Hi,

I'm thinking of buying an ECU for my 3.9 rover v8 engine (pre serpentine). Would like to buy one that if I decide to change to a 4.6 or 5.2 I can reuse.

Some say Megasquirt, others Canems system, others OMEX other Tornado and others DTA.
Which are the best ? How much complicated are they to tune ? Cost ?

Can you experts light up the tunnel I'm in.

Thanks

If all you want to do is easily replace the ECU on your existing setup you'd need to contact the various makers to see who does a 'plug and play' unit at the best price.

However, most might decide they also want ignition control, and get rid of that dizzy. Or have a modified engine which at the least will need a new fuel map. And perhaps sequential or semi-sequential injection. And so on. For ease of tuning, you'll also need to add a wideband O2 sensor.

Are you looking for a DIY system? Can you follow a wiring schematic and make a decent job of making a custom engine loom?

If you intend DIYing (other than just a simple ECU swap) MS is by far and away the most common. As it was designed from the outset for DIY use. And as such everything you could possible need to know about it is freely available.

patrolmania · Post by **patrolmania** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:00 am

What I'm looking for is a plug and play solution that can be tuned by a professional once in hand. Obviously this will include all the required sensors in order for the the ECU to read the figures from.

My intention is the get more power from my 3.9. What would you suggest ?

MS have ready to go solutions as well apart from the DIY kits. Are they good or it's better to get a DIY KIT. Obviously I'll have to contact someone to put all the components together as I'm not that practical with electronic components.

What about OMEX, DTA, Canems ? or any others ? What are you guys running ?

Thank you for your help

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:51 pm

They can all be tuned by a pro. All you need to do is find a pro who understands the actual one you choose. And of course all pros will have their favourite make - and perhaps some they won't touch.

So it would make sense to find your pro first, and use what he recommends. He can't then blame anyone else if things go wrong.

A simple ECU change on a standard 3.9 won't give more power. It may make it a better drive, though.

You can use all the existing sensors etc on your engine - assuming they are still good.

I'd urge you to read up on injection and decide what spec you want. Only you know your requirements and what plans you may have for the future. Even the best installer doesn't have a crystal ball.

Quagmire · Post by **Quagmire** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:01 pm

As Dave says - the MS docs have all been rolled up into nice pdfs now, which are better to use.

kiwicar · Post by **kiwicar** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:22 pm

Hi Dave I think I have actually been very fair to MS as I said in my first comment it offers the best range of features for the price, however it is not fair to the OP to pretend MS is plug and play, that was the very expensive mistake I made. The OP needs to be aware of the time commitment he is getting into, it is very obvious you like MS and enjoy the hobby side, I suspect you get great satisfaction from the problem solving, however the time commitment is there and it is not right to pretend it isn't.
MS is a hobby in itself, It states this repeatedly in the introduction and in the further documentation and it is telling no lies!
No matter that the documentation may have been improved (I took it off my car in May and have had nothing more to do with it) you will have to be prepared to set up a lot of the circuits, you will need access to and be able to use an oscilloscope if you need to set up the tach signal and when the electronics side of the installation you will need to be prepared to work out all the variables that need to be set. Reading the documentation to enable you to do this is several tens of hours work then finding the variables in the tuning software is a long job.
I was a big fan of MS and still think it is a great idea but I grossly underestimated the time commitment to getting it to work and that cost me a lot of money.
As regards the changing of components for non automotive ones, lets start at the 37 way D connector, the two carbon film pots in the conditioning circuits.
best regards Mike

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:35 pm

I can see where you're coming from - but there are people who will install and tune MS for you. So not really much different from any of the others which are more for pro install then DIY.

Interesting that people go on about the D connector. They're heavily used in broadcasting etc where cost isn't an issue - but reliability is. Because they are so common makes them very good value for money.

Some say - but they're not weatherproof. Neither is an MS - it is designed to be mounted where it won't get wet.

You can buy weatherproof versions of MS if you need it, though.

As regards the carbon pots, I've repaired quite a few MS, but yet to have to replace one.

I think you've been very unlucky. I built and fitted my first MS to my SD1, and had it running reasonable well minutes after fitting it. It's still on the car, although I've altered quite a few things since.

SimpleSimon · Post by **SimpleSimon** » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:15 pm

DaveEFI wrote:I can see where you're coming from - but there are people who will install and tune MS for you. So not really much different from any of the others which are more for pro install then DIY.

Interesting that people go on about the D connector. They're heavily used in broadcasting etc where cost isn't an issue - but reliability is. Because they are so common makes them very good value for money.

Some say - but they're not weatherproof. Neither is an MS - it is designed to be mounted where it won't get wet. You can buy weatherproof versions of MS if you need it, though.

As regards the carbon pots, I've repaired quite a few MS, but yet to have to replace one.

I think you've been very unlucky. I built and fitted my first MS to my SD1, and had it running reasonable well minutes after fitting it. It's still on the car, although I've altered quite a few things since.

I also think that Tuner-studio is a superb bit of software and has gone from strength to strength

yes the tuning options/settings can be overwhelming but only because your able to see these options on other ECU software its hidden from view

patrolmania · Post by **patrolmania** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:36 am

Looks like everyone is pointing towards MS
Anyone using any other options by any chance ? or knows pros / cons of them through personal or other experience ?

Thanks

DaveEFI · Post by **DaveEFI** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:15 am

Just noticed you're in Malta.

So if you're not intending DIYing things, you need to find the place that will be doing it for you, and see what they say.

If they have no experience of fitting any aftermarket unit (regardless of make), they're going to have a steep learning curve too.

richardpope50 · Post by **richardpope50** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:51 am

I swapped from Hotwire to MS and I had a horrendous time installing a pre-built MS ECU. In hindsight it was down to no help at all from my supplier and incorrect wiring diagrams for earth connections issued by my supplier. It was supposed to be a more or less an install and play installation.

In the end I got help from the MS community (world wide for me) and got the engine firing - turned out to be simple but it took three months to get there. Once engine was running I had always planned to get the starter map tuned on a rolling road and that IMHO is essential unless you know what you are doing and I did not.

TunerStudio is brilliant as it tunes the ECU itself - OK, perhaps not perfect but it does work.

Being in Malta probably means no RR is possible and so no expert nearby - probably not even another user to help you.

PM me if you like.

richardpope50 · Post by **richardpope50** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:59 am

kiwicar wrote:No matter that the documentation may have been improved (I took it off my car in May and have had nothing more to do with it) you will have to be prepared to set up a lot of the circuits, you will need access to and be able to use an oscilloscope if you need to set up the tach signal and when the electronics side of the installation you will need to be prepared to work out all the variables that need to be set. Reading the documentation to enable you to do this is several tens of hours work then finding the variables in the tuning software is a long job.
I was a big fan of MS and still think it is a great idea but I grossly underestimated the time commitment to getting it to work and that cost me a lot of money.
As regards the changing of components for non automotive ones, lets start at the 37 way D connector, the two carbon film pots in the conditioning circuits.
best regards Mike

Not actually my experience. Mine was getting the earth wiring correct (crucial) and the (software) settings right to get it to fire. Turned out to be two incorrect setting (but finding out which ones!).

patrolmania · Post by **patrolmania** » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:36 pm

Here on the island we have a lot of 1/4 mile fanatics and also the world champion at the moment. Most use DTA but there are some MS aswell like other brands.

I was going to take mine to these guys:

http://www.zoqdiracing.com/company/overview.php

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