fitting Tremec FORD T5 to RV8

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Allan Robinson
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Post by Allan Robinson » Mon May 15, 2017 4:44 pm

Sorry just corrected to 7 3/16"



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Post by Greg55_99 » Mon May 15, 2017 5:56 pm

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That puts Dimension B (on the chart) around 182.6mm. That's the standard Ford V8 length. I don't know how much you want to spend but IF you could locate in the US a Buick 215 bellhousing AND a Ford adapter plate (they are available) you might save a few coins. Maybe.

http://aluminumv8.com/Home/NewStuff

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Post by Allan Robinson » Mon May 15, 2017 7:10 pm

Thanks Greg.
Nice to see the dimensions for my 1352-000-251 gearbox. I previously spend quite a bit of time trying to measure them accurately.

I have a SD1 bell housing in my Dax Rush at present that may or may not be the same as a Buick 215.

I have until the end of September to source all the components ready for the winter upgrade so hopefully I will have acquired a TVR/T5 bell housing by then. Nice to know that there might be an Adaptor plate option as a very last resort. I guess the main issue would be to ensure that the added adapter plate actually allowed the input shaft to enter the crank spigot bush bearing.

Many thanks for taking the time to identify this.

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Post by Rossco » Mon May 15, 2017 7:52 pm

Allan



The plate itself is an easy fabrication and I'd be happy to do that for you, what could be an issue is the length of the input shaft if the T5 is significantly shorter than your existing one. If it's longer then the adaptor just needs to take that into consideration.

Excuse my ignorance but I dont usually play with SD1 bellhousings and T5 gearboxes, I'm a Big Block Buick guy these days. On that subject, nice to see you Greg.


:oops: didnt see the post above, its been a long week

Addition:

Can you post pictures of the mating faces of the T5 and the SD1 bellhousing.
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Post by Allan Robinson » Mon May 15, 2017 8:36 pm

Hello again Rossco.

I can take a pic of the Ford T5 unfortunately the SD1 housing is still in my Dax and won't be coming out until September. Is it possible to attach pics to this Thread or as a PM?

Before I get too carried away, by chance the chap I bought the new gearbox from also manufactures gear box components and bellhousings but sadly not one for the RV8/T5. He has however very kindly offered to try and source a suitable bell housing for me, so fingers crossed. Hopefully I will have some good news soon. I will keep you updated.

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Post by Devonrod » Mon May 15, 2017 8:46 pm

As Devonman has said I have just done all this, have you read "T5 suppliers" thread on Driveline & transmissions page ?

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Post by Allan Robinson » Tue May 16, 2017 8:34 am

Thanks Devonrod.
I have viewed your post and together with Devonmans comprehensive description of the fitting to a RV8 am happy with the forthcoming task. Incidentally I too bought my Ford T5 from Gearbox_man at £1700. The only difference I can see is that the casting marks show '16' rather than '83' so assume it is a 2016 casting. Gearbox_man has been very helpful and can't praise him enough (which has not been my experience with some other V8 related suppliers). I just didn't realise how difficult it would be to get my hand on a TVR bellhousing!

Greg55_99 and Rossco.
You have got me thinking about a conversion plate but as I have said before this would only be as a last resort: however, I have never seen a conversion plat so probably talking out of the top of my head. My thoughts are.

1. It would be a simple task to turn up an extended crankshaft phosphorus bronze spigot bearing if not too extreme. Hopefully would not interfere with the clutch.

2. Would need to ensure the 10 spine input shaft still engaged with the clutch.

2. Inorder to keep the conversion plate as thin as possible I assume it would need to be aluminium and welded to the SD1 Bellhousing as would have thought that the existing bolt holes might clash with the T5 hence prohibiting bolting / studding.

Unfortunately my SD1 is still in use until the end of September so I am unable to run my eyes and fingers over it to gain a full understanding. It just feels like this solution is like taking a sledge hammer to crack a walnut! But if needs must that is what I will do.

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Post by Allan Robinson » Tue May 16, 2017 1:50 pm

I need some advice please.

I have contacted J E Developments who do have RV8 to T5 bell housings but are for the Cosworth T5. My box is a Ford T5 (1352-000-251) unfortunately they are unable to tell me if their housing will fit.

My Ford T5 has an input shaft length of 182.6 mm from the gearbox face to the end of shaft. What length is the Cosworth? I know that people have fitted the Cosworth and Ford T5 boxes to a TVR housings.

Surely the fixing holes will be the same but perhaps a different size input bearing retainer hole and perhaps longer / shorter bell housing length?

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Post by Greg55_99 » Tue May 16, 2017 3:32 pm

I think you've hit something I did not think about. The gearbox you have is the US spec version of the T5 and (I think) has a shorter input shaft than the UK spec Cossie T5. If so, the bellhousing offered on your side may be too deep to use with your T5.

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Post by Allan Robinson » Tue May 16, 2017 4:36 pm

That very nice Gearbox_man has just measured a Cosworth input shaft for me and is exactly the same as my Ford T5. So looks like I am home and dry!

So think I will order a JE Developments bell housing which comes with a AP throwout bearing. I will now need to wait until September to remove my engine and gearbox from the Dax and see how it fits.

Thanks everyone.
Allan

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Post by DEVONMAN » Tue May 16, 2017 5:42 pm

It's the diameter of the bearing retainer on the various T5 gearboxes that differ. The TVR is 118.9mm. Cosworth is 123.12mm and Mustang T5 is 124.7mm.

I believe that TVR adapted the GM size of 118.9mm.

If you buy a bellhousing then the hole in it needs to match the bearing retainer that you are going to use. However the Mustang bearing retainer takes up too much space for the standard LT77 type clutch operation. A concentric type clutch release system may work.

The TVR Item's make the job simple as all the clutch release bearing and it's carrier and the gearbox bearing retainer are all available once of course you find a TVR bellhousing.
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Post by Allan Robinson » Tue May 16, 2017 6:09 pm

I drew a complete blank with sourcing a TVR bellhousing so Phoned JE Developments and enquired about their bellhousings. They couldn't tell me anything about it, not even the depth of the housing. The only thing they could say was that it was for a T5 Cosworth and comes with a concentric Throwout unit.

I have now determined that the Ford and Cossie input shafts are the same length which was my main concern. My intention was to buy a TVR input shaft bearing retainer which has a smaller diameter casting and shorter steel shaft tube which would probably fit the JE housing (would confirm size of housing hole once arrived).

The only bit I am now concerned about is that it comes with a AP concentric throwout unit designed for a Cosworth input shaft. My Ford T5 shaft outer tube is 36.4mm OD. I don't know what the OD is of the Cosworth or the TVR T5. If the Cossie and the TVR are the same then all well and good.

I know nothing about these concentric release units. Do they need to be a sliding fit on the tube or is there a reasonable degree of tolerance? Are they bought with a descrete selection of shaft sizing?

Any thoughts?

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Post by Devonrod » Tue May 16, 2017 7:17 pm

I know you cant find one but the best way forward is with a TVR bellhousing, TVR front bearing retainer, TVR release bearing carrier, you can use your existing clutch arm, pushrod and slave cylinder, the release bearing is std Rover too, I machined a std crankshaft bush to the Mustang size, if the JE B/hsn is for a Cosworth then it wont fit a TVR bearing retainer, Devonman gas given you the sizes, there are TVR people on Ebay I got my S/H b/hsn for £300 from one of these, some people have had leakage problems with concentric release units (google it) at least if a slave leaks you don't have to take the engine/box apart.
My gearbox is marked 2015, the 83 picture was just got off the net for the conversation on the thread. If you have no prop yoke Gearbox man sells them £90.

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Post by Allan Robinson » Tue May 16, 2017 7:42 pm

DevonRod. I don't disagree with any thing you have said; unfortunately the fact is I have phoned round many TVR breakers and also phoned guys who have been advertising engines and gearboxes (without bell housings) on eBay. Pretty much the same storey " Very hard to come by these days". Having said that with my luck one will pop up as soon as I have bought something else.

I have to face it, the chances of getting a TVR bellhousing are pretty slim, so moving on it is what it is. By using one of these after market housing I am pretty much committed to using a Concentric cylinder. As I have said I don't know much about them. The question for me is whether to try and buy the housing only without the AP concentric unit if they will do that and look into possibly a better concentric unit. Although I assume an AP unit would be pretty good?

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Post by r2d2hp » Tue May 16, 2017 7:58 pm

Look at this add. Bell housing sold separately

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TVR-CHIMAERA- ... SwgQ9Vugzt

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