Serpentine crankshaft pulley.

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4.6_crossbolt
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Serpentine crankshaft pulley.

Post by 4.6_crossbolt »

I'm currently starting to build up a Rover 4.6 engine and want to use a serpentine arrangement with an Intermediate front cover, so as to fit an SD1 sump. The second-hand short engine I bought had a GEMS or THOR front cover and crank pulley.

After a dry run fitting the various parts I realised that the crank pulley I have is not compatible with the Intermediate cover, the shaft section being too short, or the pulley section not being offset enough to align with the water-pump pulley.

Can someone please confirm this, and if so, has anyone got a pulley that will fit that they would like to swap for some beer vouchers?


2000 (X) Range Rover 4.6 Vogue + LPG
1985 (B) Rover SD1 4.6, T5, LSD, SP+MegaJolt
1972 (K) Reliant Scimitar SE5A 3.5 V8 + quad SU's

garrycol
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Post by garrycol »

Yes you are correct but all that is needed is a spacer - either search on here or go to a LR specific site to read up on it.

I am not up on the specifics but it is a thick spacer with a hole in it that fits between the end of the crank and the pulley - the pulley bolt goes through the pulley and spacer and bolts up to the crank. I am not sure if it is something you can buy or have to make up or the dimensions but they do exist online somewhere.

Also have you looked at the cam shaft - like the crank, the 4.6 cam is shorter and not compatible with intermediate timing cover - you will need a intermediate camshaft ground to 4.6 specs.

Garry

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Post by DEVONMAN »

Much depends on if you are going to use a dizzy in the interim front cover.
If you are then you will need a camshaft with a dizzy drive like the 3.9's.

If you are not using a dizzy then the 4.6 type camshaft will work.

Moving the crank pulley forwards by 20mm or so puts it location on the crank in doubt as it will only have 50% of it's normal register. Also the spacer needed between the pulley and the oil pump gear will possibly conflict with the oil seal.

If you use an interim crank pulley then you need an 18MM thick ring spacer at the front of the crank nose under the factory thick washer and bolt.
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8.
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
Been as far as the Moon and back in 57 years of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


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4.6_crossbolt
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Post by 4.6_crossbolt »

OK, thanks for the responses.

The 4.6 camshaft is not an issue as I shall be using MegaJolt/MegaSquirt and therefore blanking off the distributor locating hole.

So, it seems I'm looking for an Intermediate crankshaft pulley. I don't think spacing out the pulley I have is really an option because when placed on the crankshaft in alignment with the water-pump, the keyway slot and crankshaft key don't mate up.
2000 (X) Range Rover 4.6 Vogue + LPG
1985 (B) Rover SD1 4.6, T5, LSD, SP+MegaJolt
1972 (K) Reliant Scimitar SE5A 3.5 V8 + quad SU's

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Rossco
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Post by Rossco »

Sounds like you have a long snout water pump. A shorter pump would likely solve your issue.

4.6_crossbolt
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Post by 4.6_crossbolt »

Ah, I wasn't aware that there were different water pumps on these later engines - I shall have to look into that, thanks.
2000 (X) Range Rover 4.6 Vogue + LPG
1985 (B) Rover SD1 4.6, T5, LSD, SP+MegaJolt
1972 (K) Reliant Scimitar SE5A 3.5 V8 + quad SU's

DEVONMAN
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Post by DEVONMAN »

4.6_crossbolt wrote:Ah, I wasn't aware that there were different water pumps on these later engines - I shall have to look into that, thanks.
All the pumps starting with interim covers and later are the same and rotate anticlockwise.

The gems cover fitted with this pump is the slimmest assembly.

The Interim cover (Dizzy type)fitted with this pump is approx. 20mm fatter.
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8.
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
Been as far as the Moon and back in 57 years of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


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Rossco
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Post by Rossco »

SD1 SUMP........I read SD1 pump doh

4.6_crossbolt
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Post by 4.6_crossbolt »

As previously stated, I cannot use a GEMS front cover because it isn't compatible with the SD1 sump. This engine is going into an SD1, so a Range Rover sump is a no-no.

As a matter of interest, the current engine, which has a 4.6 block, with an SD1 front cover and vee-belt pulleys, uses a standard 3.9 cam-shaft which I find gives good performance (this is a road car). As the new engine will not be fitted with a distributor (although it is an intermediate cover), the 4.6 cam-shaft will be used.

I have now obtained a crank pulley which is designed for use with the intermediate cover - it is quite different, being about 4.5 cms longer, front to back, and incorporating a set of timing marks. It will, indeed, require a spacer, just as the current engine (with SD1 cover) has.

I have another question concerning 3.9's with intermediate front covers and steering pumps - does the pump bolt directly to the nearside head, or is it fitted to/inside an alloy extension housing?

I have a RR with THOR, but being a different cover, the pump is not the same. I've studied as many pictures of 3.9's as I can find and there appears to be an alloy housing. I cannot tell whether it is all part of the pump or a separate item.
2000 (X) Range Rover 4.6 Vogue + LPG
1985 (B) Rover SD1 4.6, T5, LSD, SP+MegaJolt
1972 (K) Reliant Scimitar SE5A 3.5 V8 + quad SU's

DEVONMAN
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Post by DEVONMAN »

On the 3.9's (TVR etc), the steering pump is surrounded by a separate ally housing. It's probably to put the pump in the correct position front to back for the dizzy type interim front cover.
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8.
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
Been as far as the Moon and back in 57 years of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


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4.6_crossbolt
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Post by 4.6_crossbolt »

Yes, thanks for that - it's what I thought, but don't know anyone with the right engine to have a look at.
2000 (X) Range Rover 4.6 Vogue + LPG
1985 (B) Rover SD1 4.6, T5, LSD, SP+MegaJolt
1972 (K) Reliant Scimitar SE5A 3.5 V8 + quad SU's

jenand40
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Post by jenand40 »

The separate housing you are referring to, I believe, is part number ERR4053, I have a spare you can have, you pay postage, or I could deliver as I pass Lewis on my way to Eastbourne to see my daughter.
If you would like a picture then PM me your email address.

4.6_crossbolt
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Post by 4.6_crossbolt »

[quote="4.6_crossbolt"]Yes, thanks for that - it's what I thought, but don't know anyone with the right engine to have a look at.[/quote]

Post Script - I've found an exploded drawing of the pump and housing via a Land Rover website - all is now clear.
2000 (X) Range Rover 4.6 Vogue + LPG
1985 (B) Rover SD1 4.6, T5, LSD, SP+MegaJolt
1972 (K) Reliant Scimitar SE5A 3.5 V8 + quad SU's

4.6_crossbolt
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Post by 4.6_crossbolt »

[quote="jenand40"]The separate housing you are referring to, I believe, is part number ERR4053, I have a spare you can have, you pay postage, or I could deliver as I pass Lewis on my way to Eastbourne to see my daughter.
If you would like a picture then PM me your email address.[/quote]

Thanks, I might well take you up on that. Just at the moment I've got what I think is the right housing coming from ebay, so we shall see. I do need a pump and the fixing bolts, though.
2000 (X) Range Rover 4.6 Vogue + LPG
1985 (B) Rover SD1 4.6, T5, LSD, SP+MegaJolt
1972 (K) Reliant Scimitar SE5A 3.5 V8 + quad SU's

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