Serpentine intermediate cover & oil pump - worth the cha

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Allan Robinson
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Serpentine intermediate cover & oil pump - worth the cha

Post by Allan Robinson »

I have a 3.9 RV8 in a Dax Rush kit car that I intend upgrading to a 4.6. I am running on an Edelbrock 500 and Dizzy which I wish to retain. This would be an ideal opportunity to introduce a Serpentine Intermediate timing cover solely for the purpose of gaining a crank driven oil pump.

My question is 'Is this a better oil pump system than my existing dizzy driven pump and is it worth the expense of changing £300 + water pump and other bits (not sure if oil pump comes with cover)?' I have to say that my present dizzy driven system does appear to work very well. Any views would be very much appreciated.

Allan



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Post by DaveEFI »

Wonder if the reason they changed to the crank driven pump was they knew the dizzy was going too? After all many thousands of engines ran happily with the dizzy driven pump for many many years. And still do.
There are lots of very good reasons to get rid of the dizzy. Not so many to change the oil pump.
Last edited by DaveEFI on Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Blown v8
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Post by Blown v8 »

The dizzy pump is a lot easier to prime,the later type is allegedly self prime,but just look back on this forum and you will see that isn't so !
My 2p is,if it isn't broke,dont fix it !

Allan Robinson
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Post by Allan Robinson »

Thanks Guys, you both make some very good points that gives me piece of mind and also saves me money.
The reason I am staying with the Dizzy is that I don't have an ECU or associated kit and can't really stretch to the extra cost of doing so. Also I would need to modify the bonnet and fuel system. Perhaps something for the future.

So if I purchase a short or long 4.6 engine would my existing timing cover fit? Not sure but I assume I have an SD1 cover. Will all covers fit all engines? Is it just a case of fitting spacers to the 4.6 longer crank? Would these spacers fit in front or Crank pulley thus keeping the V belt snug to the cover and inline with present ancillaries?

Many Thanks
Allan

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Post by garrycol »

There is no doubt the crank oil pump is a better and more reliable pump that the cam shaft driven pump BUT both do the job pretty well and upgraded cam shaft driven pumps are available.

So on its own, the different location of the pump is not a reason to change. As you have done, other considerations such as whether you want to use a dizzy etc apply.

I recently went from a 3.5 to a 4.6 engine and one of my considerations was whether to stay with the 4.6 timing case, serpentine belt, crank oil pump and no dizzy vs the old 3.5 with V belts, dizzy etc.

I went with the 4.6 timing case as it is coming back to haunt me as the radiator is too far away so I will have to fabricate a shroud, the water pump and fan turns the opposite way and I have had to put in a new alternator etc.

So it is these secondary factors that should have guided me in deciding which timing cover to use but at the time the secondary factors were not clear in my mind.

So - dont worry about the oil pump - go with what works best - be aware though some older cam driven oil pumps are not made of metal (are a fibreglass type material) (this is where the point about unreliability comes from) but modern replacements are great and are as reliable as the crank oil pumps.

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Post by DEVONMAN »

Fibreglass type material oil pumps. Not come across them. We learn something every day.
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8.
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
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Post by Blown v8 »

Your timing cover will fit,I used an SDi front cover on my 4.6 block with no problems,but have now gone to a JEales front cover with crank driven oil pump and distributor,but still able to use my shorter P6 water pump

Allan Robinson
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Post by Allan Robinson »

Thanks everyone for your input. As has been mentioned it is these secondary issues that are very important but difficult to assess; however, you comments have been invaluable.

I already have clearance issues near the alternator pulley so do not want my V belt any further forward. So, as my present system fits well I think I will stick with it and reuse this SD1 cover and Dizzy. Just not clear about the extended nose on a 4.6 crank and how this affects the crank pulley. I believe a spacer is fitted but not sure if this would be in front or behind the crank pull.

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Post by DEVONMAN »

The spacer is put in front of the pulley so the pulley position is unchanged. The spacer is a ring about 20mm thick and goes over the nose of the crank and the bolt/thick washer presses on it and also secures the pulley against the timing chain sprocket.
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8.
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
Been as far as the Moon and back in 57 years of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


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garrycol
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Post by garrycol »

DEVONMAN wrote:Fibreglass type material oil pumps. Not come across them. We learn something every day.
Same material as the oil pump in the LT 95 gearbox.

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Post by minorv8 »

Not in oil pump gears. However some engines have had cam gears made of non metallic materials.

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Post by Allan Robinson »

Thanks to everyone. I now have a much clearer picture as to the direction I need to take. I'm not going purchase and fit a 4.6 until October (lot of summer miles to enjoy first) so plenty of time to consider all my options. I've no doubt I shall be making further posts on engine options as time progresses and other queries come to mind.

Once again thanks to all.
Allan

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Post by garrycol »

minorv8 wrote:Not in oil pump gears. However some engines have had cam gears made of non metallic materials.
Sorry - standard LT95 oil pump gears are a fibre compound - I just upgraded mine to metal gears.

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Post by minorv8 »

Yes. LT77 oil pump gears are of fibre material. And more often than not in many small pieces.

All Rover V8 engine oil pump gears I have seen are made of steel.

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Post by DEVONMAN »

I'd say that gearbox pumps and engine oil pumps have a vastly different level of duty.
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8.
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
Been as far as the Moon and back in 57 years of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


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