A lesson in oils

General Chat About Cooling & Overheating

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Toma500
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Mobil one for a 500

Post by Toma500 »

richardpope50 wrote:Interesting. My engine came from a TVR Griffiths 500 donor and it specified Mobile 1 on an engine plate. I thus used this and have noticed that after a short time at motorway speeds my oil temp gets high - 20 degrees above 'normal side road cruising & non-motoring driving'. So much so that I am really limited to 65mph for anything other than short bursts as my water temp increases to probably close to 110 presumably due to the hot oil.

A couple of years ago the recommended listing on Mobil's web site was Mobil 1 Extended Life 0W-40W. Now in Feb 2016 the oil for my engine is now recommended as Mobil 1 Peak Life 5W-50. Obviously fully synthetic. That's what I use.

I've put some cowling around the radiator to help with cooling but not yet had a chance to try this out on motorways. I suspect that the oil will get hot as before and I believe that that is what is making my engine hot.
I have a Griffith 500 and theMobil oil reccomended by Tvr was 15/50 mobil one motorsport . They no longer make this though . I am led to believe an oil with a high zinc content is needed i am currently using a fuchs 10/60 fully synthetic reccommended to me by Hhc my local Tvr specialist . These engines can get hot mind and i run a splitter under the car and use water wetter in with the coolant and have a switch wired in so i can switch the fans on early if i want to a lot of Tvr peeps use a modwise two stage set up for the fans though i havnt .
So, perhaps I should change to quality 20/50?


Toma500

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Post by SuperV8 »

I have a Griffith 500 and theMobil oil reccomended by Tvr was 15/50 mobil one motorsport . They no longer make this though . I am led to believe an oil with a high zinc content is needed i am currently using a fuchs 10/60 fully synthetic reccommended to me by Hhc my local Tvr specialist . These engines can get hot mind and i run a splitter under the car and use water wetter in with the coolant and have a switch wired in so i can switch the fans on early if i want to a lot of Tvr peeps use a modwise two stage set up for the fans though i havnt .
So, perhaps I should change to quality 20/50?


This article might help:
https://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/tech-ar ... 60-oil.pdf

Tom.
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richardpope50
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Post by richardpope50 »

Brief update. Having sorted out my 12v supply that was probably (for some time) nearer 10v or 11v I get 13.8v with engine running. I've also added a sprung idler wheel so belt now wraps around pump as it should.

I've only managed two shortest runs and engine largely keeps cool with the gauge between 70 and 80 but does heat up in traffic with gauge at 90 with fan on. It also seems to hold it there. Before I reckoned my gauge was reading 12 degrees low. With 12v change, this may not be correct.

I plan for a long run with laptop and Tuner Studio in live mode when sun permits so should be able to check temp more accurately (as ECU uses a fully calibrated sensor) as well as updating fuel map.

Getting there, I think.
Richard.
Dax Rush 5.0l TVR V8, EFI with Megasquirt ECU and wasted spark, Racelogic Traction Control and Quaife LSD ....... Now nut and bolt restoring a TR6

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Post by DaveEFI »

Most electric temperature gauges are of the hot wire type. And those are normally fed from a voltage regulator which produces about 9V.

On my SD1, the dash gauge can show between 85 and 100C under normal running, at slowish speeds. Oddly, an MS log shows more consistent temperatures from the CTS.

I fitted a volt meter to my SD1. Never did understand why this wasn't a factory fit while an oil pressure gauge was. IMHO a volt meter is more useful that an oil pressure gauge.

What I found was it gave odd readings when connected to 12v inside the instrument cluster. So wired it direct to the battery via a relay, and it sits at 13.8v for most of the time.
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richardpope50
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Post by richardpope50 »

I had always assumed my volt meter was 1v ish out. Now it shows just over 13v so I guess it is less than half a volt out.

The reason my 12v was so out was that I had my 12v ignition and permanent distribution made of an ali bus bar with bolts mounted on a plastic bracket.

Image

Remember this main fuse?
Image

That was when I used SS bolts for all electrical connections and all earth connections to chassis. I thus swapped all for zinc. However what had happened this time was that the plastic bracket for the above distribution had melted with presumably current and all connections were loose.

I've now replaced distribution bar with a proper distribution block. I had always thought my 12v supplies were not perfect so now I hope all is OK.
Richard.
Dax Rush 5.0l TVR V8, EFI with Megasquirt ECU and wasted spark, Racelogic Traction Control and Quaife LSD ....... Now nut and bolt restoring a TR6

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Post by SuperV8 »

Richard,
Good day to test to see if your cooling system is fixed :D

Tom.
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richardpope50
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Post by richardpope50 »

Yes, perfect and I'm on three week holiday in France (included Le Mans 24 hr Classic) in my Wife's MG TF! Home next week so test scheduled subject to rain. We got stuck in 45 min traffic jam in high 20s temp other day and MG TF kept totally cool as I was wondering what Dax would have done.
Richard.
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Post by SuperV8 »

Enjoy Richard,

For reference I kept an eye on my temps yesterday during my cruze home;
Oil was steady around 100-102 and coolant varied between 90-95, maybe just touched 100 when in traffic (hard to tell with parallax error)

My temperature was well off the scale, must have been close to boiling point!! :lol:

Tom.
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Ian Anderson
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Post by Ian Anderson »

Sounds crazy but at night the GT40 runs a few degrees hotter.

Then he noticed the volt meter and day it is just over 14
Night with lights on it is just under 13

Feed that into a gauge working off the same voltage and suddenly the motor is not at a higher temp!

Ian
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Post by DEVONMAN »

I'm confused. ( Could be my age) Why would a night time lights on gauge reading be higher on 13 volts than a
day time 14 volts ?
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Been as far as the Moon and back in 57 years of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


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Post by unstable load »

Could be the lights draw the voltage down and this effects the oil pressure reading because suddenly the gauge is running closer to the rated voltage where it would be calibrated to run, ie. 12V...
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Ian Anderson
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Post by Ian Anderson »

That is what I am trying to say.

Similar to Richard who had bad contacts dropping the voltage.

The temp gauge in my car is an electric one, which I believe runs as a volt meter and the Denver is a variable resistance unit that earths the circuit.

So with less volts going in when lights are on the gauge reads slightly higher..

Ian
Owner of an "On the Road" GT40 Replica by DAX powered by 3.9Hotwre Efi, worked over by DJ Motors. EFi Working but still does some kangaroo at low revs (Damn the speed limits) In to paint shop 18/03/08.

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Post by DaveEFI »

if you want any reasonable degree of accuracy from a gauge, it needs to be compensate for changing battery voltage in some way. Either by running from a stabilised voltage source as most hot wire types do, or by having an internal compensation coil, like some moving coil meters.
Dave
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Post by DaveEFI »

if you want any reasonable degree of accuracy from a gauge, it needs to be compensate for changing battery voltage in some way. Either by running from a stabilised voltage source as most hot wire types do, or by having an internal compensation coil, like some moving coil meters.
Dave
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richardpope50
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Post by richardpope50 »

One problem I have is knowing the correct temp. I sent all gauges to CAI to check and to supply correct sender units. My MS sender was calibrated by me so I assume laptop reading of MS ecu is correct. However water temp always seemed to show 12 degrees too low despite CAI purchase which checked out with my two 'fan on' switches - one ecu controlled and other in line otter switch sender in rad inlet pipe. Oil sender is not in perfect place so cannot be sure.

Now that low voltage sorted, I await my holiday return to do some proper tests. At the moment, I would just like my fans to cool temp down enough to switch off between traffic / towns and water temp to be mid 90s.

Perhaps having 3 water temp senders was not a good idea!

Will report back in due course.
Richard.
Dax Rush 5.0l TVR V8, EFI with Megasquirt ECU and wasted spark, Racelogic Traction Control and Quaife LSD ....... Now nut and bolt restoring a TR6

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