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Ford 302 N2o

 
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topcatcustom
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Ford 302 N2o Reply with quote

Does anyone happen to know how much giggle gas a SBF 302 could take?

It is the standard engine in my Maverick, and rather than go silly with turbo's etc I'm thinking about gassing it. I'm still not sure whether or not to stroke it, the full kit is cheap for what you get, but you have to take metal out of the block for crank and rod clearance which I'm not keen about, the car only weighs 1200kg so it doesn't need much more than 5 litres- especially if I put the money from the stroker kit towards ally heads and nitrous instead. -Plus nice pistons of course. Would hypereutectic be good enough for nitrous use or is forged the only way to go? Hyper... pistons are supposed to be more stable thus have tighter bore clearance and use less oil and run smoother- but no point if they can't handle a good amount of nitrous.

So probably- stock crank, polished rods, forged(?) pistons, (all balanced), roller cam would be nice but too much hastle and expence, so a mid performance hydraulic most likely, alloy or well worked heads with bigger valves, headers, eddy inlet manifold, holley 600-750cfm afb, might even go MSD!

How much nitrous do you recon it could take before getting risky? And what would the weak points be in the above engine spec? I'm guessing con rods or crank if go silly with the nos Confused

Oh- and back axle Laughing And C4 'box??????
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gelmonkey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom
I am using the hyperutectic in my engines and have been advised to only run a max of 100bhp jets in my system.
These slugs are very strong but sensitive to detonation so thats the reason for a small shot.
Bear in mind that with 5ltrs of fun under yer foot a 100 shot of gas will be tons of fun.
Would have bought forged for mine but divorce would have been more costly if had gone down that route.(Could'nt and still can't see the problem,result both ways really.Had two unhappy marriages.The first wife left me and the second one won't Laughing )
cheers
P
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bones
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is the axle a 8" ??. The things ive found out and will be using on my 302, Forged probe pistons are best to use with gas and keep comp to 10.0:1 will be fine for 200 to 300 of gas plus depending. im going with a 750 cfm edelbrock carb and a edelbrock rpm performer air-gap inlet. You will need toget a good torque converter done for gas use, not sure about the c4 box as mine will be rebuilt for gas use. I would forget the stroker and use the dosh on other parts. you will get 400bhp out of a 302 without gas. Very Happy rich
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kiwicar
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom
Grinding the block is quite a simple job, I had to remove metal in just a few areas on each cylinder, if you make up a couple of feeler gauges out of suitable bits of metal, mark up the block around where the sump bolts on and do it one pair of cylinders at a time doing trial fitting of the crank and rods as you go then it is nothing to be scared of (don't forget the cam area), took about 3 hours in totla on the chevy.
If you gas it you really want forged pistons. Good heads are a key investment as they will deliver the best improvments in power. A roller cam is also well worthwhile, they give both extra power and better drivability, also once you have changed to a roller set up you bont have to change lifters if you change cam, and you don't have to worry about breaking in the cam and finding high zinc addative oil. I would also put on a bottom brace on a 2 bolt bottom end.
Best regards
Mike
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topcatcustom
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ta guys, I was thinking about a brace on the bottom- though it never seems to be mentioned as an issue with the sbf's? The only thing I hear of with them is when they get too powerful they can split the block top to bottom??

Forged it will be then, I would like a roller cam but as my block isn't a roller block I thought it might be a bit hard? Or do the dog bone type lifters just go in any block? What about roller rockers too and how much are they and a roller cam worth over normal stuff power-wise?
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kiwicar
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom,
I fitted retro fit chevy roller lifters, not the dog bone type, they are limmited on the lift they can handle and need a spider plate to fit them. they are a case of fit the linking bar and drop them in. I have a photo of my set up on here somewhere that I took when I posted about my rev kit a couple of months ago, just can't fing it at the moment, but they really are a doddle. On a chevy of about 350 400 bhp tune they are reconed to be worth about an extra 40 to 50 bhp and 500 to 600 revs wider power band for a given duration at .05" lift, obviously you can then trade the extra width on the power band for more power, or go the other way, have an even more flexable engine for a given power output. roller rockers are worth while and are reasonably priced compared to rover (well under half the price of rover ones).
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Mike
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kiwicar
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tom
There are some pictures of the valley on my chevy down in this thread showing the link bar type roller lifters, fairley obviously I have a rev kit fitted (as that is what the thread is about) Laughing
http://www.v8forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6634
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Mike
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topcatcustom
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I meant the link bar types Embarassed Though I struggle to see how that little bar flapping up and down at 7000rpm speeds doesn't fly off Shocked How about power reclaim by roller rockers?
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kiwicar
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi tom,
I don't think there is a power claim for roller rockers, it is more a case of they are much less likley to break, they don't wear out your valve guides as quickly, and you can use heavier valve springs without overloading everything and binding on the guide plates. Standard ratio ones may gain you 3 to 5 BHP (they are generally more accuratly made) but it isn't why you fit them.
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topcatcustom
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh ok, so again its a case of fit them and you can fit heavier springs etc. Makes sense.

Anyway this has gone a bit Off Topic !!!


So it should really be a case of build the engine- maybe with fair size ring gaps and a cam in mind to use some gas with- start at a hundred and go from there?
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bigaldart
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom,

I would have a skim around the Mustang forums, bound to be a few good ideas on there, also Carcraft and Popular Hotrodding have decent online sites with plenty of feature articles building sbf engines. Check out the Engine Masters stuff on Popular Hotrodding also. I am pretty sure even old school flat tappet style 400-450 HP is well within range even for a budget build. Forged pistons will be pretty cheap for this type of build so consider it a good investment for when you want more power, which we all know you will!!

Alan
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bigaldart
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take this article as a good starting point. 310 ft lb from 2500 rpm upwards and 375HP. The second one is even better.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/ford/0611em_ford_302_engine_build_up/index.html

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford_302_v8_engine_buildup/index.html


Alan
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kiwicar
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Anyway this has gone a bit Off Topic "
Please forgive me for trying to answer your questions, Won't let it happen again ! Laughing
Mike
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't blaming you Mike- I have a habit of keep asking questions and didn't want to get a bo***cking from Tony Laughing
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