fitting Tremec FORD T5 to RV8

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Allan Robinson
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Post by Allan Robinson »

Yes I saw it and phoned him but had already sold it. Thanks for the thought though.

I will keep searching until my impatience gets the better of me and I buy a after market version.



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Seight-V8
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Post by Seight-V8 »

I'm currently doing this to change the gearbox from LT77 to ford cosworoth T5 in my v8 westfield.

I bought a TVR bellhousing, luckily from a nice chap on here, then worked out the differences in the input shaft housings then, removed this material manually, think it was 1-2mm all round so not had, marked it on with some digital calipers, then removed it with a large file, not hard but time consuming yes.....take your time...and a perfect fit.

I'm not using the bearing from the TVR or LT77, I'm using the tilton 60-6100 universal, which comes with a spacer you machine to the correct size of the outer diameter of the input shaft, it just then screws in the back, and slides on the input shaft, you then set the thread to give you 3mm gap between your clutch front cover and the bearing face.

I did also get the tilton master cylinder 75, as I was worried the girling one I had would alter the clutch pressure to much.

The tilton is so much easier to setup, and can easily be adjusted on the car, if the clutch wears.....

I have changed the crank spigot bush for the ford cosworth T5 one, which most TVR supplier sell, and I've have engine & gearbox together, dry assembled, and all looks good.

I originally bought an AP concentric bearing, but I would have to make a spacer for it to get the exact spacing between the clutch front cover, as the release bearing was the wrong type for my radius'd clutch cover fingers, and even AP themselves could not supply a flat face bearing to replace it, so £300 wasted......its now on ebay.

Gearbox is now in the car, I've made the speedo bank from some ally bar, installed the concentric pipework, and bleed screw, reversing light wired, and new T5 westfield propshaft.

Gear lever today, made my own, just need to work out a position place for the bend.

Hope some of this helps, but tilton do a range of concentric bearings for the T5's, just got to order them for America, mine was £350 from summit, with all taxes and delivery included, plus a 3 week wait of course.

regards

scott

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Post by DEVONMAN »

The comments so far on this thread are based on the fact that the OP was fitting a Mustang T5 type gearbox in lieu of his LT77.

Fitting a Cosworth T5 presents a different number of challenges and it seems you have sorted those.

Out of interest did you check the run out of the hole in the bellhousing after your filing exercise. 10 thou max total recommended.

When I previously fitted a Cosworth box to a TVR bellhousing, machining the T5 bearing retainer in a lathe seemed to be the best solution.

For the Mustang T5 conversion the OP will need a special spigot bush, a different clutch plate (10 spline), source a suitable concentric, as there is less front to back space if using the Mustang T5 bearing retainer, and a special prop shaft with a mustang front yoke. The suggested swapping in a TVR bearing retainer makes the job easier and gives a more reliable clutch release system.

Hopefully he will find a TVR bellhousing in the near future.
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8.
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
Been as far as the Moon and back in 57 years of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


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Allan Robinson
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Post by Allan Robinson »

Thanks Scott. Some good pointers here; however, as Devonman has pointed out there are some subtle differences between a Cosworth T5 and a Ford T5 which are mainly centered around the different bearing retainers.

Apologies to anyone who as previously read this thread; however, I don't want to mislead anyone so I have edited as below:

Based on all the input and PM's to date I have come to the following conclusion which best suits my self. Changing the Ford bearing retainer to a TVR retainer would also be viable option.

1. As I don't have a TVR Bellhousing I am probably going to go with a V8 Tuner solution as hopefully has been tried and tested with an after market bellhousing. I already have the Ford T5 gearbox, lightened flywheel and AP Racing clutch.

1. Use the existing T5 bearings retainer and save approx £100 against buying a TVR retainer.

2. Purchase a RV8/Ford T5 WC bell housing from V8 Tuner. I have decided against the JE Developments version based on some feedback and my own experience when phoning them for information. (I'll come back to the retainer hole size at the bottom of this thread).

3. Based on V8 Tuners Competition package purchase their concentric throwout bearing as it is designed for tight spaces. (will probably use all the savings from not using a TVR Retainer)

I will also need to establish if this system works on DOT 4 or DOT 5 fluid which may result in the requirement of separate reservoir.

4. Purchase a suitable crank spigot bush or needle bearing or ream out my existing.

5. Purchase a Ford T5 sliding spline from Gearbox man, V8 tuner or others.

6. I am hoping to use my existing AP Racing clutch but with a new 10 spline clutch plate from Gearbox man. I will have to wait until September to confirm the clutch condition and requirements.

7. Purchase an EBT speed sensor and prop shaft speed disc. Will either make a speedo blanking plug or purchase one from V8 tuner.

Going back to item 2. Prior to Scotts idea of manually filing out the bell housing retainer hole, I too had intended to save some money and do the same; however, it has since been brought to my attention the importance of 'dialling in the bellhousing'. In truth I have never heard of this but now having viewed the subject on the internet and You Tube filing out the hole is probably not such a good idea. Basically a dial gauge is used on this hole perimeter to establish if the input shaft is actually lined up with the crank.

The above is not exactly cheap but when it comes to big boys toys nothing ever is!
Last edited by Allan Robinson on Sat May 20, 2017 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Allan Robinson »

Apologies to anyone who has already read my previous thread; however, I don't want to mislead anyone so I have edited it.

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Post by Seight-V8 »

wow you have got me worried now, that I've done something awful with my new gearbox install.....after watching those youtube vids.....it looks like i might have more problems.

But looking at the videos, its also how the bellhousing dowels locate the bellhousing to the block and the crank centre position.

Looks like it need to strip the bellhousing off the gearbox and check it before i go any further, the vid show offset dowels to correct and offsets.

Just hope these are available in the UK if needed.

more problems than answers........just when im thinking I'm getting somewhere its two steps back, my build is just problem after problem.

scott

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Post by Allan Robinson »

Hi Scott. Tell me about it. Just as I thought I had it all sorted with a V8 Tuner bellhousing it now turns out that they don't actually have any in stock and are unable to source any more for the foreseeable future.

Greg55-99 suggested in a previous thread that I might try contacting AlumiumV8 (D&D Fabrication) in the USA. So last night I did just that and yes they do have a very nice bellhousing (open bottom type) but at $750 + shipping + import duties it isn't cheap.

With regards to the offset dowels I watch with interest to see what options are available. On You Tube there are some better than others that are easier to twist and adjust.

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Post by DEVONMAN »

It's likely that you will source a TVR bellhousing before Sept. You could join the Rover V8 Engine appreciation Facebook and put in a wanted request.

If you have settled on a concentric clutch release then another approach is to use a RV8 auto box bell housing and bolt a plate to it. I have done this but you will need to find someone with a milling machine or a large lathe to do the work on the plate. I have done this in the past and used a Rover P5/P6 auto bell housing. ( Google up some images). It has a circle of bolts and a concentric recess which lends it'self to bolting on a plate. I used a 20 mm thick ally plate.
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8.
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
Been as far as the Moon and back in 57 years of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


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Greg55_99
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Post by Greg55_99 »

I realize this may be an obscure question, but, what is the TOOTH count on the input shaft gear? Not the spline count, the tooth count. Any way of knowing?

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Post by DEVONMAN »

Greg55_99 wrote:I realize this may be an obscure question, but, what is the TOOTH count on the input shaft gear? Not the spline count, the tooth count. Any way of knowing?
24 teeth on a Cossie and the Tremec T5 which Allan has is also 24 teeth.
The pocket bearing is a taper bearing on Allan's T5 unlike the Cossie and earlier T5's which have needle rollers in the pocket.

Early T5 Mustangs have 23 teeth.
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8.
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
Been as far as the Moon and back in 57 years of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


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Greg55_99
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Post by Greg55_99 »

DEVONMAN wrote:
Greg55_99 wrote:I realize this may be an obscure question, but, what is the TOOTH count on the input shaft gear? Not the spline count, the tooth count. Any way of knowing?
24 teeth on a Cossie and the Tremec T5 which Allan has is also 24 teeth.
The pocket bearing is a taper bearing on Allan's T5 unlike the Cossie and earlier T5's which have needle rollers in the pocket.

Early T5 Mustangs have 23 teeth.
Ah SO! What could be done with an item like this:

https://www.bonanza.com/listings/Gm-Aus ... /473492062

It's much longer than his current T5 input shaft. It might give more room to work with fabbing up a plate of some sort.

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Post by Devonrod »

Seight-V8, Scott if you have filed out your bellhousing hole and its not 100% round getting off set dowels wont fix the problem, Rover size is 1/2 inch if you are going to buy them, you may be able to get some idea of how close you are and if you have a good fit to the gearbox bearing retainer/bellhousing you may well be OK but I would check your results from several different locations on the part you have opened out not just 12/3/6/9 oclock as most people do.

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Post by mike-b »

Allan, Regarding the clutch fluid type required.

I Have the Ford T5 (mustang not Cosworth ) box and I have fitted the Tilton 6000 series concentric system. In their instructions Tilton advice Dot 3 or 4 but NOT to use Dot 5.
I am using Dot 4. My master cylinder is 3/4 inch diameter and 105 mm long and is the same master I used with the T5 Cosworth box.
You do need to be very careful of how far the clutch pedal is moved. Tilton say you can bleed the system by using the full travel of the clutch pedal but only with the bleed valve open at the time the pedal is pressed. When bled you need to establish at what point the clutch pedal is when the clutch is disengaged.. Then measure the distance between the pedal and the floor or pedal stop and then remove 1/4 inch or 6mm from your measurement. At that point you need a form of pedal stop, either attached to the floor or your pedal.
If you buy the Tilton the instructions need following precisely.
I have found the clutch to be smooth and quiet, likewise the gearbox.
By the way my mustang box has a spline count of 10 and 28 for the yoke bought from V8 tuner.
Mike B Drives a 1984 Mk2 Granada ghia V8.

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Post by DEVONMAN »

Greg55_99 wrote:
DEVONMAN wrote:
Greg55_99 wrote:I realize this may be an obscure question, but, what is the TOOTH count on the input shaft gear? Not the spline count, the tooth count. Any way of knowing?
24 teeth on a Cossie and the Tremec T5 which Allan has is also 24 teeth.
The pocket bearing is a taper bearing on Allan's T5 unlike the Cossie and earlier T5's which have needle rollers in the pocket.

Early T5 Mustangs have 23 teeth.
Ah SO! What could be done with an item like this:

https://www.bonanza.com/listings/Gm-Aus ... /473492062

It's much longer than his current T5 input shaft. It might give more room to work with fabbing up a plate of some sort.

Image

Greg
There is a slim possibility that the angle of the helix of the teeth is different so that needs to be checked or commented on by someone who knows.
1950 A40 Devon Hotrod with 5.0 twin turbo RV8.
EDIS8 wasted spark, Holley Injection.
Been as far as the Moon and back in 57 years of driving. Same Car, 5 engine upgrades !!!


Image

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Seight-V8
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Post by Seight-V8 »

sorry but I don't want to hijack this thread, just to post an update.

I've been pretty worried after reading the replies and posts in this thread, but suppose I am glad it all came to light.

I stripped my bellhousing from the gearbox in the car this morning, and using a dti on the flywheel checked the alignment/runout of my bellhousing hole.

I think its turned out that my results have been really lucky....could have been much worse.

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Results are in metric by the way.

Another weight off my mind for now at least.

regards

scott

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